Topic: Cyndy & Drugs

Steve,

Love to know what music works best with breathwork.

Now if you say "Cat Stevens", I think we'll all split a gut. LOL.

Takes a lot to ruffle these feathers, Teko. Only Eldon, can get to me. Speaking of Eldon, where is he? Eldon goes away and Harry shows up. Whassup?

BTW, Nice to have you posting here.

Much love,

Cyndy

Sent: 9:11 PM - 10/5 2000

Harry: I could agree to some extent that beliefs can attract to us certain circumstances. They certainly narrow our Perceptual field and cause within us certain actions that lead to the probability of attracting certain conditions. They can set up attractor fields. But there are also powerful conditions that reside outside our conscious control or control at all that also effect our lives just as strongly than our beliefs. We intuitions, sensings, disrupted energy flows, extrasensory perceptions, and lots more that are very powerful attractors that reside outside the domain of beliefs. Add to this senseless dumb luck. Randomness and indeterminancy. Magnetic fields. Ostrilisms in nature. Morphic fields. Our beliefs seem like small potatoes against the background of nature. How much clout can our beliefs have even if we completely buy the Avatar philosophy? I mean it may help some. It may give me some resiliance in the face of adverse conditions. But we likley need to control far more than our meagre belief systems. Attractor fields are enormous and Thomas Velikowski said that beliefs are only 10% of a huge and overwhelming picture. We need much more than just having belief control. The universe is immense in its power. True it flows through out consciousness. But our beliefs our really limited even though we may believe otherwise.

Arn't we really trying to hypnotize ourselves with glorified postive thinking in the guise of scientific belief management?

I agree we shouldn't struggle against the universe. But isn't creating and discreating our beliefs a subtle form of resisting the universe. We want something, we want to change our reality. Isn't this resistance? Can't this create problems for us down the road.

Now here is where I may have some slight disagreement with you. Maybe its word play or I am misuderstanding your philosophy here. I have created and discreated many things in my life using both Avatar methods and other methods. I have never once consciously taken responsibility for my socalled creations. Not once. I have seen them as a mix of learnings from out there and some of it seems to have been done automatically to me through my biology. I have not viewed them as my creations. I have seen them as

energetic forms that are there. I have payed attention to them as energetic forms. And I knew by doing this they would process out. Not once did I think of them as my creations. And not once did I take responsibility for them.

Yet they vanished away. And I have created beliefs through visualization. And I have created transformational flipovers. I never once bothered to consciously take any responsibility for them. I'm not so certain that your stated philosophy is true or even important to the procedures of creation or discreation.

The last statement you made I can travel with because I recognize my power to at least influence my belief systems and some of my reality. At least I know I can boost my resiliancy and up my probability of success.

Hey if you are the real Harry and not someone posting his philosophy, I'd like to welcome you here.

Moseef

Sent: 5:30 AM - 10/6 2000

I understand that someone is putting together a complete book of Avatar type processes called the "Source Course" and that it will be marketed shortly. Will this be published by Star's Edge? I am looking forward to purchasing a copy. Can I buy it directly from Star's Edge or are there other outlets?

I found this page very helpful in allowing me to utilize Avatar. I have done the feel-its and the label-its from what I learned here. I find the section 3 discreation processes very interesting. I've been able to clear with the CHP. I added breathing to it and it worked wonders. The body handle worked great. Believe it or not I sense that it has altered my body image. I think Harry Palmer should be congratualated for bringing all his nice tech out into the open. He is a wise business man because it will help to sell more of his courses.

Jan

Sent: 9:33 AM - 10/6 2000

Lets just keep it a tech Page and not start up again talking Pro or Con the whole Avatar thing.

Sent: 9:39 AM - 10/6 2000

My simple experience is: Whatever I speak out loud the most often (as a decision/belief not as a wish) eventually does manifest....no matter what it is. I ve experimented with this many times, and it has NEVER failed.Whatever I wanted, I just spoke my sentence that I have it, thousands of times, and it did occur. To some creations there were side-effects (Secondaries) of course....but my will manifested anyway.

Due to these kind of experiences I ve come to the conclusion that anything is possible, including mastery of the physical universe. It just needs additional training.

The Ancient One

Sent: 10:35 AM - 10/6 2000

Is it possible to Master the Physical Universe by the Power of Will and Belief? Yep,but you wouldn t want to.

We are here in this Physical Space because that s what you primaried / intended to be before we came here.

Trying to gain absolute control over the PhysU will spark the very Primaties (now Secondaries)that allowed you to live/exist here in the first place.

The Primary Package accepted as a ticket to enter this Earth-Reality includes some very powerful "limitations".

Sent: 10:36 AM - 10/6 2000

This might perhaps be of help to other people suffering from migraine.

I had problems with getting headaches after playing tennis. I have now tracked it down to coming from a drop in coffein rate probably due to heavy sweating.

My fix is to drink cold coffee diluted with plenty of water during the match. It really works. No sign of any headache anymore. Drinking Coke works fine too but I get heartburn from it, so I prefer diluted coffee.

/CS

To newbies,

Sometimes I forget, that there are others reading and not participating on board. I thank you Lyle, for bringing that back into our awareness. Not too long ago, I was a newbie too.

Perhaps, clarification is needed about the underlining theme of what I considered was being discussed in relation to satori and drug usage.

I see one of the main blockages to change or transformation is that of fear of experiencing the unknown.

So often, we don't venture out of our comfort zone, simply because we perceive that it won't be safe. Stay safe, stay in the known, even if it is causing us great suffering.

The experiences such as "satori" allows us to recognize that it's all in our "head". Such states as previous posted are not an unnatural occurance. Newbies, no big deal, don't get lulled into thinking it's something you, yourself haven't experienced. Maybe not to the degree some of us have. But you will if you seek it.

Again, biggest trap I see, fear of the unknown. Just be willing to fully experience.

I have this one quote by Eleanor Roosevelt. "Do what you think you can't". It's my favorite.

Much love,

Cyndy

I'm not very good at bringing up feelings on demand, which seems necessary to do the section 111 rundowns. I find it hard to restim myself. I expect I need to do something a couple of rungs below. All suggestions welcome, Avatar or Emoclear anything, but leave out the walk for atonement if you don't mind.

Richard,

I'm sure someone more qualified than I will respond to your inquirey. But perhaps this will help.

Since I have always been a feeler, this exercise came very easy for me. It wasn't until I decided to experience the opposite that I came to understand what it may be like to not be aware of ones feelings.

I entered this detached state from the place of "no one" can hurt me. Not feeling, was a defense mechanism.

Do you know how to do the 180 degree drill? Might try that.

What is also very interesting is that I am not a very good visualizer. I have to really work at that, so tech that includes that type of thing, like NLP, is more difficult for me to do. Perhaps you just need to find a tech that is more suited to the way that you naturally process.

Curious, what's wrong with Walk for Atonement?

Much love,

Cyndy

Sent: 2:33 PM - 10/6 2000

Ancient Temple: What do you mean by mastery of the physical universe? Could you give some concrete examples? I'm not certain about what you mean.

Richard Head: What are section 111 rundowns? Bringing up feelings on demand may be why you might have a hassle with bringing up feelings at that point. Feelings only come when permitted or allowed in a relaxed way. There's lots of ways to bring them up. Could you tell us in what context you would like them to emerge?

Ancient Temple: Although I'm not for running the politics of the Avatar situation here, I don't see anything wrong with people offering opinions about various aspects of the tech itself. Ways it might be improved. Or even how much they like certain aspects of it. I don't view this as politics. People suggested using certain breathing techniques with CHP and I found that it drammatically enhanced its clearing ability. If you mean the political bs or what sort of a devil or angel Harry is, I'm for leaving personalities and personal attacks out of here.

Just the tech.

Cyndy: As I read the other poster's mention of safe, I understood it safe in avoiding situations where you could easily get restimmed or panicked or go nuts. I think these are potential strong hazards for some people to avoid. I've seen people get enough bad trips in my life to know there are dangers for some people in LSD use. I knew a woman back in college who slit her wrists wide open in a hotbath and killed herself after doing some blotter acid.

I don't believe it's the acid as much as the person doing it. Some people have a much smaller safety zone.

If your son or daughter had a fragile personality or suffered from panic disorder would you want them doing up LSD? Hey I'm for taking risks, but not stupid risks. I've done LSD and loved it, but I would never in a million years say it was for everybody.

There's only a few people out there that can negotiate mega hits of the stuff. They have resiliant personalities and can let go. They're rare persons.

Safe is sometimes smart. Take the small victories until your ready for the large one.

I bet you have to wrestle with safety. I bet you've done the safe thing. That's why you're coming after everyone else who's suggested for people to use their sense.

Hank

Cyndy

What is the 180 excercise, I haven't come across that? I can feel alright it's just that I can't seem to get into an excercise and really feel something,i.e, a limitation. I'm very certain that feelings are the key to tranformation. nearly everthing we think is based on feelings. If I say I can do something it is because I feel I can do it. If I say I can't do something it is because I feel I can't do it. It is the difference between confidence and fear which are both feelings. Hey! maybe that's what I should do, feel I can't do the excercises right to its outer limits. We are creatures of feeings. Out thoughts are verbalisations of these feelings. Unfortunately we tend to get stuck in thoughts and removed from feelings. So what's new I hear you say.

Hank. Section 3 is a part of the Avatar course.

Richard. (Dick for short)

Sent: 6:04 PM - 10/6 2000

I know it is possible to release the mental energy through CHP, Sedona, Emoclear. Is it possible to release the physical energy through the methods too? For example, with sexual energy, I know that you can release the mental thought through the release systems but does the sexual energy go away too. Or must that be release physically?

Richard,

I'll have to look up the 180 but I think you hit upon it. Get out of you head. You're trying to analyze, don't, just feel. If that don't work try feeling me, feel how I would do the exercise. Someone who comes from a pure feeling place. How would I feel a limitation? How would I experience it?

Hank,

Sure I've done the safe thing. While you all where off doing your LSD and shrooms in the 60's and 70's, I was keeping this baby making machine pure, free of toxins. Now, it's my turn to explore and you all are saying, not safe, don't do it. Sort of sounds like you all have gone soft in your old age or sensible.

I tend to think you did what you needed to do at the time. Just like I did. And if I needed to experiment with LSD or shrooms now, no amount of caution from anyone on board would stop me. It's just not needed at this time.

What's important to me is that I remain willing to experience and not be afraid of the unknown.

Much love,

Cyndy

Sent: 9:39 PM - 10/6 2000

Cyndy:

Basically read the warning label is what most people are saying. A lot of these guys did some heavy duty experiements back in the sixties and seventies. They saw these experiments as jumping off points to other sorts of disciplined interior study. No ones telling you not to do anything. If you think you're up for the trip you'll find away. However, if you've got a hassle with feeling feelings in anyway, I'd give shrooms a spin if you are going to go that route. An LSD trip could really get out of hand if you have a challenge with feelings. Something tells me you may have some problems with trust. I might be off. But if you you are doing a good dose you may find yourself getting emeshed with some strong suspicious feelings. Build yourself up and get some confidence at a less intense situation. Shrooms can open up some gates. Let me tell you too Breathwork and certain kinds of music can open some heavy duty gates. You need to do this breathing fully, quickly, and with a sense of surrender.

Don't sell that method short by a long shot. You'll be in some deep water and conscious dreaming. The Makyo and the intensity is quite strong. I kid you not. Your breath can trigger pretty much the same stuff as psychedelics if it's performed correctly. It can bring up plenty of stuff. The truth is some people can totally flip out from breathwork if they're fragile. That's why its good to know the Meridian Grasp and have it on hand if suddenly the flood gates open. I've seen people in nighmare alley on breathwork. The good thing is they can slow or stop their breathing and the nightmare clears up after a bit. With Acid you may have to go 7 hours before the peak is over and you come back to earth. By that time the charge is driven down into your being and you've got flashbacks and traumas galore. Anything worthwhile to be revealed on intense acid can be equally revealed on Breathwork. Special abilities can pop up on breathwork. I've never heard of that on acid.

Check out some books by Stan Grof on Holotropic Breathwork.

You'll see some places get opened up. He did LSD therapy and he'll even tell you breathwork leaves nothing to be desired.

Hank

Sent: 9:53 PM - 10/6 2000

Dale: I hope I'm reading you right. I've worked with all the big ticket releasers. Emoclear. Avatar. Sedona. They all release physical energy. It's really noticible if your doing Emoclear on a number of clears because that breathing is often triggering off orgasmic like body waves of energy.

You'll notice this if you take your attention off your targets and you'll see what your body is doing. I've seen my girlfriend doing the MG and the D.I.E. and her body is really writhing after about fifteen mintes of the stuff. I've seen these rhytmic spasms and you could almost detect heat or energy waves coming off her in a candle lit room.

A lot of energy travels out through the feet. The feet get very warm. It's the breathing that really magnifies this.

The others do it too, but to a lesser extent. However if you add breathing to the CHP and the Sedona you get similar effects.

William Tekada

Thanks guys,

On the surface this last weeks discussion may have appeared to be about using drugs. In reality it wasn't.

You see, a couple of weeks ago, my part-time job as being an accountant went bye-bye. Now most of you might not be aware of the fact that CPA's currently are in demand. (I could probably get almost any job I want) So the safe and sensible thing for me to do would be to find another job as an accountant. Not what I want to do. So letting go....

Very interesting to experience. Letting go of the safe, the known. Feels like falling into a deep abyss. The fact that I anchored the state of being "grounded" earlier this week certainly is a god-send. I certainly urge others who may be doing some deep exploration to try doing this.

Hank, you're very intuitive. Trust definitely something I've been exploring these last couple of months.

Okay, here is my official stand on drug usage.

I personally do not support or condone the usage of drugs by anyone who is mentally or emotionally unstable. That means if your tweaked or wacked don't use. Also if you're not of college age, forget it until you're older. I also do not support the usage of drugs for escapism (this includes alchol) But sometimes we do what we have to do.

There are some of us who are more fragile when it may come to this kind of exploration. Where fragility is a weakness here, it may be a strength in another application.

One good thing that has come from this discussion is Steve has promised to post something on breathwork in a couple of weeks. I really look forward to it.

I thank you all for your sharing.

Love and light and all that is,

Cyndy

Sent: 8:31 AM - 10/7 2000

Often times people will supress a feeling while doing a release. That is why is does not seem to work. That is also why circular breathing works so well. It brings up the supressed emotion. Once the feeling is in the forefront, it can be dealt with.

Consider the the Sedona Method. It has a very powerful question. "Could I let this go?" Wow! There is real power there. Let me break it down for you:

"Could"- A question. Non-intrusive.

"I"- Source. Claiming responsibility.

"let"- Allow. A choice.

"this"- Observing feeling objectively. Disassociating.

"go"- Release.

Many of you may think the Sedona Method is weak. But there is real depth there. But I think we tend to dismiss it too quickly.

Sent: 10:27 AM - 10/7 2000

Response to Hanks Post: Right on Hank.

Commentary to Releasing:

In order to release something it must first be owned fully.

You can t release what you don t experience yourself source of. As Krishnamurti was fond of saying: BE with it.

Enjoy it. Own it. Have it. Appreciate it.

....before releasing it.

Richard: The Walk for Atonment is a very powerful ritual that is, in my observation, often taught in a hasty and disgraceful way. Someday you might wanna re-consider it.

One of my favorite variations (not mentioned in any Materials): Step 2: "What is keeping me from fully trusting and giving in to Higher Source / God"

Step 4: "I fully trust / give in to my Creator"

Sent: 10:43 AM - 10/7 2000

Karl: I really like the old Sedona too and it's brother the D.I.E. Both of these are potent release release techs if done right. It's true the breathing really adds to the Sedona too. It builds an energy stream that helps in processing period. Not only does it help bring deep stuff to the surface, it moved the process along. The Sedona is a valuable word structure. Put that word structure in a fast moving river of energy and stuff really releases strongly. Emoclear Steve loves the Sedona. In fact if you read his directions to the D.I.E. he dedicates the D.I.E. as a tribute to the Sedona. The D.I.E. takes a different approach in its dropping method or releasing method. Don't sell the Sedona short. Hook breathing into it and releasing becomes easy. Another good thing about circular breathing is that you are breathing. Stopped breathing will short circuit the processing. Also always do any process with the intention of allowing it to be there. This is basically trusting that things will be handled. This trust grows with experience.

ED

Ancient Temple,

I'm a little confused. Favorite variation of what?

There's a step 2 and a step 4, what happened to step 3?

Anyways, thank-you

Love and light and all that is,

Cyndy

Sent: 11:07 AM - 10/7 2000

Ancient Temple: I just read your post. You and Steve must be on the same wavelength. I'm a United Methodist Christian and use prayer tech as well as some of the great tech on this board. I see it all coming from the one source. However this source goes by many names. Source. Senior to mind. God. Yahweh.

Buddha Mind. I could go on and on.

A few weeks back when I came to this board I got into an email discusssion with Steve about using tech within a Christian context. I teach a spirituality course in my U.M. congregation and I wanted to incorperate Steve's M.G., D.I.E. tech into their work. He helped me reframe and relabel all of these processes in ways that would be more accessible to the older, slightly conservative members of my class. We talked about prayer and I discovered he once wrote a manual on centering prayer which grew out of Christian Spirituality. By the way Steve is a free spirit liking certain elements of all religions. He leans heavily toward Buddhism, but he's not strictly so. I discovered he knows quite a bit about many diverse religions. To make a long story short Ancient T, when he was talking about making his tech more available to people who come from Christian backgrounds, he said almost the same thing you said. He helped me devise a spiritual exericise where the question was prompted: "What keeps me from letting Go to God and fully surrending to his divine will?" After this question was explored with intuition and slow circular breathing and the reason was opened up and integrated, then there came this statement: "I fully trust and surrender to God's divine will" This opens the path to a christian form of mediation which is grounded in allowing your problem to be handled by God (processed via Emoclear Christian tech)

I found your creator statement quite similar and very wise.

Ed

Sent: 11:21 AM - 10/7 2000

I'm looking forward to seeing Steve's Dreamstate Creation Process. I heard from William that it will create something exactly like false memory syndrome except in a positive sense. You get a passionate gut level vision of what you want absolutely unencombered by any secondaries.

I must have some secondaries because the idea makes me a little tense. That would be an incredibly powerful way of installing somerthing. The end result I'm told is that you experience it as if it really and truly happened already. William told me you have it stored as a memory just like what happens during false memory syndrome. I know it's my call, but the idea still leaves me feeling tense. I'll probably have to do some secondary clearing before I do this one.

Billy D.

Sent: 2:47 PM - 10/7 2000

Does SE have a court order against the NAP regulating what is allowed on this board and that they can close it down?

I've recently become aware of how inwardly tangled I am. I was starting to dabble with meditation when I was directed to this forum. As I read the postings I feel like a child with adults talking about 4 or 5 levels above my head. I want to start eliminating my inner conflicts and regain some peace of mind. Can anyone let me know how to get started? How exactly do I use the Tech processes to clear a conflict or problem? How do I even know what my conflicts or problems really are? If someone is willing to talk babytalk for a bit I'd really appreciate it.

Sent: 9:48 PM - 10/7 2000

Has anyone heard how effective Electroconvulsive therapy is? My psychiatrist has reccomended it for my depression since i am not responding to drugs or talk therapy.

Sent: 11:36 PM - 10/7 2000

http://www.well.com/user/jct/stream.htm

Just thougt you guys might enjoy watching this video. Would love to have your comments if you have any

Ra

Ancient Temple and Rich Head (great pseudonym!)

The Walk for atonement is indeed one of the least understood of the Avatar exercises. It is not a punishment your Avatar master sends you on for "not getting it".

The Walk is a pilgrimmage, a journey to the inner mountaintop. On the journey we drop all the heaviness of our past (burdens). At the peak we enjoy the pure air and expanded view. On the return we are full of blessings for life and all the other pilgrims, who, sooner or later, will make the journey too.

There are three exercises on the course that I seemed to end up explaining in greater detail and working very closely with the student. They are Transparent Beliefs, Persistent Mass, and Walk for Atonement. Walk for Atonement gets glossed over because its Section I, because the student wants to get on with the secret yadayada. Well, you know what? Walk for atonement is as heavy a hitter as the CHP any day. I have busted major life trauma and baggage with the walk. I have had students who just loved it, and did it every day on course, voluntarily. No punishing here.

Once it is understood what a cool cleanout it can be, all ideas about it being tedious vanish.

Section I Avatar, the publicly available, try it for cheap or free stuff, is as powerful as anything on the Wizard's course. I know, I have been to the wizard's course three times, and you don't even want to know how many walks for atonement I've done, not to mention transparent belief exercises. Don't sell Section I short. It's got some real goodies.

The Walk is indeed a ritual, and it should be treated with the same degree of respect for each symbolic motion that it specifies as you would in, say, a sweat lodge. Feel the thought of each of the steps on the way out. Stay with it until it shifts. Smell the roses at the end of the walk out.

Feel real blessings with every step on the way back. It's a kind of meditation.

I often would follow up the transparent belief exercise with a walk for atonement, and use the transparent belief uncovered as the subject for the steps of the Walk. Make no mistake - it's a discreation process. You feel the creation on the steps out, step out of it at the destination, and re-integrate on the steps back. You should have the same clear feeling you get from a successful Section III rundown. It's just a matter of being thorough, appreciating what you are doing, and not letting the deeper implications of the aspects of the ritual slip by in unawareness. If you need to, stop, refocus, and bring your full awareness back to the exercise. Then continue on. It might only take a half hour. It could take two hours - it takes however long it takes. The result is what is important. Don't compromise on getting a successful result from it. -Y

On the topic of manifesting "primaries" or creating new realities, I think it's simply a matter of degree and agreement. You can change a lot about your "self" in your own mind and within your immediate environment. Repaint the room, for one thing. You can strongly influence personal relationships for the better. It isn't all that hard to make some pretty big reality changes within your community. And there we enter the realm of--pardon the expresssion--politics. Also diplomacy. Welcome to group dynamics. You had better know how to work the news media.

Of course it's possible to argue that all of existence, including the physical universe, is just one big hologram we project through the collective mass consciousness, yadayada. But if you want to change very much about that, you are going to have to figure out how to get the agreements of everyone and everything involved. This may present interesting challenges, as no one has yet agreed on a way to tally up the dolphin and tree votes, let alone those of every grain of sand on the beach.

On Cyndy's comments about trying new things, I think it's also a matter of degree and perhaps some transitional mode of operation. You said you are leaving an accounting job, and are ready for new challenges. Is this a starting point where you can use your valuable knowledge and experience within a different context? Or are you going to scrap your career altogether and take up something entirely different? I have no opinion on this either way, but I do think it's worthwhile to look at what might be the optimum degree of change. As in, how much and how fast?

Best, Eldon

Here is an adaptation of an exercise developed by Ron Davis to give a sense of orientation. In other words, just spatially positioning yourself, or your "mind's eye" viewpoint in relation to what is around you. It's part of his lexicon of processes to correct dyslexia. Ron likes to do this guided, but I think it's possible to do it solo too.

If some of the various authorities here--particularly newbies to consciousness work--would be willing to try it, I would appreciate your feedback. In particular, were the instructions easy to follow? Did it do anything? If so, what?

------------------------

We'll assume that you are in a room with four walls, a ceiling and a floor. If not, please find one for this simple exercise.

Sit comfortably somewhere near the center of the room with your feet on the floor. Do a little circlar breathing. Cross your right ankle over your left ankle. Put your right hand in the center of your chest so you can feel your heart beat. Put your left hand below it on your diaphragm and feel your breathing. Close your eyes and put your attention on the eight corners of the space within the room. Hold your attention there and notice your feet touching the floor.

Remain sitting where you are. Imagine yourself getting up, walking over to each wall of the room and touching it. Don't worry about the furniture; this is an astral body, so it can walk right through things. Now, imagine yourself strolling back to where your real body is sitting. Your astral body walks up behind the chair. Imagine it putting its hands on both shouldere of the real body that is sitting there and looking down at the top of your real head. Feel the hands on your real, physical shoulders. Now, mentally find the eight corners of the room again. Open your eyes and look around the room.

Hint: If you find yourself getting distracted or "drifting off" when you don't want to, this is a handy way to refocus. In the future, just put the imaginary hands on the shoulders of your real body.

----------------

Also, let me know if I could have explained this more clearly, please.

Best, Eldon

Sent: 4:29 AM - 10/8 2000

Dear Ed...thanks for your insights on the addional perspective. I have had some Christian students in my courses, which were very open to it all. I do not consider myself a creation, but I have a way of communicating with them that opens them up for their potential.

That s why I rephrase some excersises to suit their prefered belief-system:-)

Cyndy: Step 2 and 3 are the only Steps of the "Walk for Atonment" that change.

Yogi: Thanks for your additonal comments...I feel the same.

The Ancient Temple

Sent: 4:32 AM - 10/8 2000

By the way: The Primary "I totally surrender to the Divine Creators Will" did the final job for me.My Will aligned with Gods or "Higher Selfs" will.Life has never been the same since....things fall in place naturally.What happens, happens....the bond of trust in life is unbreakable.

Sent: 4:34 AM - 10/8 2000

Sorry, a funny misspell in my Post on the "Walk for Atonment" I intended to say "I do not consider myself to be a Christian" and instead wrote: "I do not consider myself to be a creation"....LOL!

Sent: 4:51 AM - 10/8 2000

B.H.:

You sound articualte and you say you are inwardly tangled, yet you ask about knowing what your problems and conflicts really are. What does being inwardly tangled mean for you. Can you describe that? What would be peace of mind for you? Please describe that.

What makes you believe you may have a problem or a conflict? At this point in time what does a problem or conflict mean to you.

The tech directions are pretty straight forward. However I would not even begin to do any of this work without first knowing what a problem or conflict is.

You may need to head over to the library and get an introductory book talking about what problems and conflicts are. Without knowing what a problem or conflict is, you can't pinpoint what you may need to transform.

Can you tell the difference between feelings you like and those you don't enjoy? Can you tell which of your behaviors you like or don't like? Do you have thoughts that arn't serving you well? Do you like your moods?

You really need to know what your problems and conflicts are, so I'd head over to the library and get that intro. book on problems, feelings, and conflicts. This would give you a sense of what you are dealing with.

In the intrim you might find the Multi-solutions Generator something you could use to find out about your problems if you currently have any.

Lyle Talbot

Sent: 5:20 AM - 10/8 2000

Therapy Patient:

Don't go anywhere near ECT. It may be somewhat effective in cutting temporarily into depression, but it causes brain damage. That's a fact. There are likely quite a few websites up outlining the severe problems that result from ECT. I am 100% against it.

Years ago I worked in a hospital that performed ect. I saw patients after they underwent this process. They suffered from zombie like affect and had huge deficits in their memorie.

What sort of talk therapy have you had? Much of it is fairly innefective with depressed persons according to studies. I'm not big at all about drugs except in situations where a person is suicidal and then only for the short term.

Depression can be created by so many factors and some of them arn't psychological. It may have much to do with what you eat, the sunlight you get, the lack of control you experience in your life, your social connections, allergies, and lots of other factors.

What part of the country do you live in?

If you're depressed you need to be in conection with someone

who will take a multi-perspectives approach to your problem.

Simple talk therapy can often make a person more depressed because it tends to amplify the problem. You might reach for the Multi-Solutions Generator up on the tech page. You also might email Steve Mensing at SGMensing@hotmail.com.

Ask him about tapping treatments specifically geared for depression.

Studies have also shown that taking up running or aerobic walking can have a profound effect on depression. In fact Running and aerobic walking are said to be better than zoloft/prozak or Cognitive Therapy in the reduction of depressed symptoms. It makes sense when you think about it.

You're pumping out endorphins, improving your health, moving energy throughout your body, and feeling control in your life.

No stay away from ECT at all costs--it can cause brain damage. That's a fact. Period. You're therapist may say otherwise, that they use lower jolts. It causes brain damage and I'm against it's use. Really investigate ECT.

I'm surprised it isn't outlawed, but some people profit from it. There's so much more possibilities to handle depression than there was 10 years ago. Your therapist sounds like he or she is living in the dark ages.

You may need to head to the bookstore and see how many effective alternatives there are to drugs, chat, and god forbid ect.

Lyle Talbot

Sent: 5:47 AM - 10/8 2000

Forget ECT or it will help you forget. It creates neuronal damage and is only somewhat effective for about 2 weeks.

It really sucks. You better consider going out there and researching some of the many effective approaches for handling depression. Much of the NAP page tech would be very useful in eradicating depression. However you need to pinpoint partical "depressing" beliefs and feelings. The Multi-Solutions Generator can be very helpful in problem solving. The Vortex, M.G., and D.I.E. could be very helpful if you know what to go after. Like Lyle I would recommened a therapist who looked at any and all of the contributing factors in your low feelings. Running and walking are better than ECT and they won't dammage your brain. Don't take my word for it, investigate ECT on the net. There's a book on ECT written by Fink,but it is total garbage. It causes brain damage.

Love, Kelly

Sent: 5:50 AM - 10/8 2000

Webmaster:

Just noticed that the NAP Technology up top is down.

Sent: 7:17 AM - 10/8 2000

When I first learned Walk for Atonement I liked it very much. Then I went to a Master and hated it. The first time, on my own, I walked to a specific point (like the top of a mount). Then walked back. With the Master, I was walking back and forth (maybe 10 paces) like a duck in a shooting gallery. It did absolutely nothing for me (other than dislike the Master). Yogi, which method do you teach?

I just want to chime in about the benefits of walking.

I walk six days a week with a group of lady friends. We do about 3 to 4 miles. Not only is the fellowship and sharing important to me but the general overall sense of well being one derives from this activity is amazing. On the seventh day I do my solitary 5 mile walk in which I do alot of my introspection work. I add circular breathing while I'm walking, and it adds another dimension to it.

Just the act of walking balances the hemispheres of the brain. I have also found that is beneficial in balancing hormones, specifically insulin. Over abundance of insulin can really mess up ones sense of well being.

Besides, exercise for depression I would like to recommend a book by Priscilla Slagle, M.D. a Los Angeles psychiatrist, called "The Way Up From Down". The book describes a nutritional approach she has used with patients. She claims to have a 90 to 95% success rate.

I recommended this book to a friend who was suffering from depression. She still thanks me to this day.

Love and light and all that is,

Cyndy

Sent: 8:45 AM - 10/8 2000

By the way, I have a question for you Sedona Method experts.

Can you please explain to me when you are suppose to use the Method to release on "feelings", and when you are suppose to use the Method to release on "wants"? I never understood this. Much appreciated.

(Also, BTW, the messages come out much neater if you hit "enter" before typing your message to leave a space between the heading and the message.)

Everyone:

I likely see more people with depression and anxiety than I do any other category of challenge. Often the two are mixed.

I'd Like to say right off I give a complete thumbs down to ECT. There's far too much data that's being ignored about this method of treatment. It causes memory loss and neuronal damage. It also kills people. Years ago when I was a college student and working at a psychiatric facility in Philedelphia, I came on with the morning shift and found a man dead in his bed where he had just received ECT. That made quite an impression on me. ECT really shows negligible improvement with most patients and it usually only has short term duration. Further many studies show it physically harmful to the brain. Neurons are killed. Memories erased.

I stand 100% against it and believe it should be completely banned from the psychiatric armaterium.

There are many processes and approaches that can alter depression far better than ECT or standard brand talk therapy. I agree with one poster that certain forms of therapy may actually inflame depression. Pathologizing and focusing on the past has probably increased the lengths of treatment and led in many cases to a sense of hopelessness.

There are many excellent methods for taming this age old challenge. Clearing of any sort, whether it be energetic, old school straight line, or other,seems to work really well if the proper feelings and ideation are targeted.

Energy work does wonders.

Brief therapies like Solutions-Oriented and Cognitive Therapy have good track records with depression.

Proper eating life styles and certain natural supplements have helped people show improvement in Depression.

Exercise such as brisk walking and running have better records with depression than either Zoloft or Prozak.

Walking/Running gets you energy flowing, gets up your breathing, sparks the production of feel good endorphins, and often leads to a relaxed mental state where someone stops dissociating and trancing out and begins to naturally process feelings. How many of you have had a challenge and have gone out on long walks and suddenly noticed you are looking at your challenge in a new light. Highly recommend this approach.

Getting allergies and food sensitivities checked out is very important. These can lead to sluggish and depressed thinking and feeling. I can't tell you how many people I've seen who have realized an immediate lift in their mood by watching their simple carbohydrate intake.

Seasonal Affective Disorder can contribute--not getting enough bright light.

Another key thing to remember: If you need to do something important, get up and do it no matter how you feel at first. Doing this gives a person an immense sense of control and shows them they can accomplish what needs doing.Inactivity and dwelling on your trances and negative feelings can lead to more of the same.

The number one problem with failing to get immediate results with all therapies and techs is the natural human ability to dissociate. The mechanism of dissociation is up and running in most folk's inability to have a therapy or tech work for them. On this page and in my email I witness people discussing how they have a tough time experiencing feelings or getting in touch with processes. There is some mechanism, within us,that abstracts or distances ourselves from basic feelings. This can be seen by just asking someone to do a simple sensate focus or focusing. In their descriptions of their inability to conect you invariably hear dissociation being described. The challenge here is to help folks get back into their body's in a relaxed and comfortable way. Exercises to feel and to comfortably bring up feelings are useful. Placing your hand on your chest or heart area helps return feelings to the body. Strongly dissociated experiences can be brought back into the body by feeling them back in.

For people who have a challenge with dissociation (it may come and go for some) Gendlin's focusing, without the questions, is a good way.

Does anyone have some favorite ways of moving from dissociation to full feeling? Why not share them.

Take care, Steve

Karl:

It's been awhile since I saw their video or read some materials on Lester Levanson's process. I suspect they want you to be able to connect with your feelings and release them first before you move onto the concept of wanting and rleasing. Feelings may be easier to experience for the neophyte than the concept of wanting. Wanting and imperterbaility are higher order targets. "Mega Brain Power" by Michael Hutchison may give you a good notion of why feelings are targeted prior to "wanting".

Take care, Steve

Sent: 3:36 PM - 10/8 2000

Everything in the head had tightened--there was no room for anything there inside of my brain. For the first time I became conscious of my head with everything `tight' inside of it. These vasanas [past impressions] or whatever you call them, they do try to show their heads sometimes, but then the brain cells are so `tight' that the vasanas have no opportunity to fool around there any more. The division [created by past impressions in the form of thought] cannot stay there. It's a physical impossibility. You don't have to do a thing about it.That is why I say that when this `explosion' takes place (I use the word `explosion' because it is like a nuclear explosion), it leaves behind chain reactions. Every cell in your body, the cells in the very marrow of your bones, have to undergo this `change'--I don't want to use the word--but it is an irreversible change, an alchemy of some sort.

It's like a nuclear explosion. It shatters the whole body. It's not an easy thing; it's the end of the man. Such a shattering blasts every cell, every nerve in your body. I went through terrible physical torture at that moment. Not that you experience the `explosion'; you can't experience the `explosion' - but only its aftereffects. The `fall-out' changes the whole chemistry of your body.

The after-effects of that [the `explosion'], the way the senses are operating now without any coordinator or center--that's all I can say. Another thing: the chemistry has changed--I can say that because unless that change in the whole chemistry takes place, there is no way of freeing this organism from thought, from the continuity of thought. So, since there is no continuity of thought, you can very easily say that something has happened, but what actually has happened, I have no way of experiencing at all.

This is a thing that has happened outside the field, the area in which I expected, dreamed, and wanted change. So I don't call this a `change'. I really don't know what has happened to me. What I am telling you about is the way I am functioning. There seems to be some difference between the way you are functioning and the way I am functioning, but basically there can't be any difference. How can there be any difference between you and me? There can't be. But from the way we are trying to express ourselves, there seems to be some difference. I have a feeling that there is some difference, and what that difference is is all that I am trying to understand.

The changes began. For seven days, every day a change occurred. U.G. discovered that his skin had become extremely soft, the blinking of the eyes had stopped, and his senses of taste, smell and hearing had undergone a change.

On the first day he noticed that his skin was so soft that it felt like silk and also had a peculiar kind of glow, a golden glow. 'I was shaving, and each time I tried to shave, the razor slipped. I changed blades, but it was no use. I touched my face. My sense of touch was different.' U.G. did not attach any significance to all this. He merely observed.

On the second day he became aware for the first time that his mind was in what he calls a `declutched state'. He was upstairs in the kitchen, and Valentine had prepared some tomato soup. He looked at it and didn't know what it was. She told him it was tomato soup. He tasted it, and then he recognized it, 'This is how tomato soup tastes.' He swallowed the soup and he was back to that odd frame of mind. Rather, it was a frame of `no mind.' He asked Valentine again, 'What is that?' Again she said it was tomato soup. Again U.G. tasted it. Again he swallowed and forgot what it was. 'I played with this for some time. It was such a funny business--this `declutched state'.'

Now that state has become normal for U.G. He says he no longer spends time in reverie, worry, conceptualization and other kinds of thinking that most people do when they are alone. His mind is only engaged when it is needed, as, for instance, when someone asks questions, or when he has to fix a tape recorder. When it is not needed, there is no mind there, there is no thought. There is only life.

On the third day, some friends of U.G. invited themselves over for dinner. He agreed to cook for them.

But somehow I couldn't smell or taste properly. I became gradually aware that these two senses had been transformed. Every time some odor entered my nostrils it irritated my olfactory center in just about the same way--whether it came from an expensive scent or from cow dung, it was the same irritation. And then, every time I tasted something, I tasted the dominant ingredient only--the taste of the other ingredients came slowly later. From that moment on perfume made no sense to me, and spicy food had no appeal for me. I could taste only the dominant spice--chili or whatever it was.

On the fourth day, something happened to his eyes. U.G. and his friends were sitting in the Rialto restaurant in Gstaad. It was here that U.G. became aware of a tremendous sort of `vista vision', like a concave mirror.

Things coming toward me, were moving into me, as it were. And things going away from me seemed to move out from inside of me. It was such a puzzle to me--as if my eyes were a gigantic camera, changing focus without my doing anything. Now I am used to the puzzle. Nowadays that is how I see. When you drive me around in your car, I am like a cameraman dollying along. The cars in the other direction go into me, and the cars that pass us come out of me. When my eyes fix on something they do it with total attention, like a camera.

From the life of U G Krishnamurti: A Life By Mahesh Bhatt

http://www.well.com/user/jct/ugbio/ugbio8.htm

Sent: 4:45 PM - 10/8 2000

Dear M.G.:

Remember my framework is influenced by what I've been reading on the page prior to arriving at your Krishnamurti post. There were posts about ECT.

If U.G. had gone to a mainstream psychiatrist and reported this same report, the psychiatrist may have offered him medication, maybe even hospitalization. and a DSM label like Schizo-affective. In short he would've been branded psychotic.

If U.G. would've gone to Steve Mensing, he would've heard: "Welcome home brother--glad you've been able to set mind aside. What's the recipe for your tomato soup?"

Teko

Sent: 5:13 PM - 10/8 2000

I met Steve Mensing today and he's a helluva guy. I drove up to Philadelphia today from Maryland and met him. He worked one on one with me on some issues. It was quite rewarding. Afterwards we went out to lunch. When we were driving along I spotted a playground where a bunch of youngmen were having a pick up game. I asked Steve if he liked hoops and he said yes, he loved college hoops and the 76'ers. I told him I had a backetball in the trunk. The next thing we were on the playground. We were there about two minutes when we got drafted into this halfcourt game.

Let me tell you Steve's in his fifties, but he's a natural athlete. For a guy his age he moves like a dragster. His shot was amazing. Just about everytime he touched the ball he either penetrated or shot. His shot has no spin on it. It's high and arching and it was hitting nothing but net.

He was playing against Afro-American playground ballyarders, most in the late teens to upper twenties. He was motoring right by them. His shot was like radar. He's fiercly competitive on the court. He has gray hair and it was flying all over the place. I was amazed when he told me never played any organized basketball when he was a kid.

He was a football player. I tell you the old guy has a hell of a shot. He's really intense.

When he left the court his whole demeaner changed. He's really a happy go lucky guy who is quite present.

It was quite an experience. I'm still sorting it out. He's very real and down to earth. I can see why everybody likes him. You should hear him tell stories.

Teko

Sent: 10:25 PM - 10/8 2000

My mom underwent ECT back in the late eighties. She will tell you she can't recall whole years of her life. I remember visiting her in a day room right after one her tratments. It was a total downer seeing all these people walking like zombies after they had either ECT or insulin shock. My mother didn't recognize me for almost an hour afterwards. Her eyes were vague and distant. Her depression was right back where it started about 5 weeks later. It's one tech that people should avoid at all costs.

Here are some websites that tell you about this tech:

WWW.CCHR.org/ect/eng

www.Banshock.org

www.ect.org

www.Idiom.com/~Dr.John/ect.html

www.mental-health-matters.com/activist.html

www.disabilitynow.org.uk

Dave

Sent: 10:51 PM - 10/8 2000

Hello Karl,

I taught to go for a destination, as in the walk you did on your own. That worked for you, so it must be more right for you than the way your Avatar master had you doing it.

However, one student did do it walking big circles in a large room. He did several walks this way, most of them voluntarily, since he liked the exercise. This was because he took the course in the middle of the winter, and it was really cold and rainy outside. I advised him that the real "destination" was when he felt neutral about the issue that he was using the walk to resolve. So he walked in circles, but with the understanding that if he completed a circle and still had charge on the issue, he would keep going. In a way, the circles also became symbolic for him: he could relate being stuck on an issue to "going around in circles". The need for "going around in circles" disappeared when he released the charge.

However, everyone is an individual, and it sounds like having a nice walk outdoors towards a specific physical destination works well for you.

Interesting that MG should post the account of U.G. Krishnamurti's transformation. I've always been fascinated by that guy (a friend used to hang out with him in Gstaad). For some reason he spent about half his life attempting to debunk Jiddu, the unrelated original Krisnamurti, who had a similar experience in Ojai, California during the mid-1920s. Jiddu was brought up by the Theosophists as the incarnation of the new world leader, and U.G. had been raised by Theosophist parents. Both split away from the Theosophy organization. Anyway, here's a little equal time for Jiddu:

"When man becomes aware of the movement of his own thoughts he will see the division between the thinker and thought, the observer and the observed, the experience and the experiencer. He will discover that this division is an illusion. Then only is there pure observation which is insight without any shadow of the past or of time. This timeless insight brings about a deep radical mutation in the mind."

"Man has built in himself images as a fence of security – religious, political, personal. These manifest as symbols, ideas, beliefs. The burden of these images dominates man's thinking, his relationships, and his daily life. These images are the causes of our problems for they divide man from man. His perception of life is shaped by the concepts already established in his mind."

"When we condemn or justify we cannot see clearly, nor can we when our minds are endlessly chattering; then we do not observe what is; we look only at the projections we have made of ourselves. Each of us has an image of what we think we are or what we should be, and that image, that picture, entirely prevents us from seeing ourselves as we actually are."

There have been some important posts about depression. As usual, Steve has covered just about every sane angle of approach for dealing with it. I concur that ECT is a barbaric form of treatment that should be outlawed. Period! (In some places it has been.)

One thing to remember is that depression is a cyclic phenomenon. Everybody is a little bipolar to some degree. Life has its ups and downs. If you do nothing but bide your time and go through the motions of living, one of these days will be a better day. If you do things for yourself that promote health and well-being, it might happen sooner. But it will happen anyway.

Maybe one of the subtle factors that inhibits people from getting in touch with their own feelings is the compulsion of researchers to analyze, categorize and label mental phenomena. Perhaps eventually there will be a sub-sub-sub-category for every one of us. Depression isn't Chicken Pox. Sure, it has neurochemical components, but not in a direct cause/effect relationship.

Maybe this is why "talk therapy" can make it worse. A friend went to a psychiatrist he calls "the bitch," who made him progressively worse because--in his exact words--all she did was make him think more and feel less. As soon as he stopped seeing her, he felt better.

It's possible that any kind of description gets in the way of direct experience, including the catch-all word "depression." You feel how you feel at any given moment. See the J. Krishnamurti quotes below.

Best, Eldon

OK Yogi,

I feel like sticking on an anecdote that relates to your post about the Walk for Atonement. At one time, I saw the most amazing thing. Ron Davis, the dyslexia guy, was working with a kid who was terribly discoordinated and totally clumsy. The technical term is dyspraxia. This kid walked pigeon-toed, stumbled a lot, and bashed into furniture.

First, Ron got him "oriented" using the visualization trick of putting your mental viewpoint above and behind your head on the midline. Once he was focused, Ron had him go walk down the sidewalk to a certain bush and then decide to return, deciding to put a destination point at each end of the walk and go to it.

After a few trips back and forth, the kid was walking pretty normally. Ron explained, "Nobody ever bothered to explain to him the concept of having a destination. He didn't know he was supposed to go someplace when he walked."

Strange but true. Sometimes it's the simple things.

Best, Eldon

Sent: 6:58 AM - 10/9 2000

Thanks, Yogi.

When I first purchased the Resurfacing book, I actually did the Walk of Atonement from the bottom of my staircase to the top (it winds so maybe 30 steps). At the top I was at my destination. Then going down, I did my gratitudes.

I don't really know what was up with that master I went to. Maybe Harry should revoke the license.

Sent: 7:54 AM - 10/9 2000

My walk for atonement exercise was just OK. Actually I got stung by a bee on about my third step (karma?) and that sort of punctuated everything I thought of with "damn bee", which is probably not the exercise Harry was thinking about. BUT, on the next exercise, Self-Deception Signals, I went through shaking and blaming and humiliation and came out of that exercise feeling stronger and more in control of my life than I have ever felt before. Really sooped-up!

Later, because everyone else had big wins on 'walk' and only seemed so-so on "deception signals" I wondered if maybe what I missed on "walk" finally blossomed on "deception signals."

Yogi, does any of this make sense to you?

Sent: 8:02 AM - 10/9 2000

PG,

Release on "feeling more in control." I am sorry. Couldn't resist.

Isn't that the old Avatar and Sedona mind=set? Release on that. And then release on that too. Okay, then release on that too.

They want us to release until there is nothing left! Not even us!

Sent: 8:05 AM - 10/9 2000

Probably more has been written on the MG than anything else. However, I have one more question. What specifically does each of the holds do? One in the back of the head and one on the forehead. What are they doing?

I certainly know what the breathing is doing. If Mensing never did another thing, that circular breathing would make him a genius in my book.

Sent: 8:20 AM - 10/9 2000

Yea, Karl, if you want a real trip, run CHP on "I am."

Sent: 10:54 AM - 10/9 2000

Karl:

The Meridian Grasp hand hold serves a number of powerful functions.

The hand on the back of the head (on the occipital ridge) serves several valuable functions. 1. It channels energy directly into the visual cortex. 2. It serves to create an energy bridge straight through the brain like a photon beam

to the frontal cortex. 3. This bridge between the front and the back of the brain serves several useful functions. Among them it helps to create whole brain synchroney/awakened mind. It makes visualizing and experiencing a feeling simpler. It channels energy into a brain region that leads to purtibations being processed out.

Purtabations are basically energy forms or filters, they get turned back into their original formlessness. This hand hold has a natural relaxing and calming affect.

The frontal hold (the palm being gently placed over the third eye with fingers pointing toward the cranium) serves several powerful functions. It streams all the body and breathing energy into the major confluence of all the body's meridians flowing into the front of the head. This sends a powerful and focused beam of streaming energy straight into the frontal cortex. The frontal cortex is where a hell of a lot of very important brain organizing functions takes place. This frontal hold also serves as a bridge between the frontal cortex and the occipital ridge.

The end result is powerful clearing in an atmosphere of safety and acceptance. Relaxation into clear experiencing.

The frontal grasp helps shut down the flight/fright response that can overwhelm people during severe traumas and panic reexperiencing. Hence you have that sense of relaxed and accepting calm when you are viewing even the most intense problems. In short the hand grasp, as simple as it appears, focuses energy in the frontal cortex and and rear vision centers, creates a safe and accepting enviroment, and blows out strong charge, transforming it in the process. Basically you are connecting body polarities and channeling through the most important regions of your brain. The finger pull at the top stimulates the neurovascular points that make for a powerful anit-restim, anti-panic safety net. This shuts down the flight/fight regions. I hope I've explained the whys about this wonderful, yet simple method. Essentially you've combined breathing and energy work in an extremely high-powered vehicle. Breathwork and energy work are two of the most powerful clearers--now they are welded together. Hey take P.G.'s CHP and plug it into the M.G. and turn it loose on I am. Also turn it lose on your sense of mind. Turn it lose on observer-observing. on observer looking back on itself.

On space outside of universe. On no self/no mind. On just watching. On space between thoughts.

Have fun, Lyle Talbot

Teko and Steve,

Now come clean, did you all try anchoring the "zone" before playing hoops?

Cyndy

Sent: 11:22 AM - 10/9 2000

Sit in a chair and do the Meridian Grasp and gently start rocking back and forth. Forward to back. And then side to side. Visualize your body image spinning every minute or two. Keep up your circular breathing and do not target anything. Just let your unconscious do the rest. When you're really into it, just say "body out" And drop it.

Say: "body out" and drop it.

Within 20 mintues and several unprogrammed sponataneous clears, I popped out of my body. I was exterior to my body and I saw it clear as day across the room. It was motionaless now. Another time I added this rocking and visual spinning to the M.G. what were clearly past lives came back to me in total 3d. If you don't cherish the thought of having "alternative" experiences, then I stay away from these exercises. I know a bunch of you likely had these experiences just doing the M.G. without added exercises. I know some of you mentioned synchronicities and odd happenings over on the board. Don't be afraid to talk about it. Use another name if you want to keep anonymous about it, but I think enough people are accepting here and open. I bet Steve has houses full of interesting stories. I heard he had something called "the Shrinking Lens" that caused spontaneous OBE's. I bet 98% of you have some interesting tales.

Charles

Sent: 11:42 AM - 10/9 2000

Cyndy,

I didn't anchor a zone. Steve just seems to be in a zone period. He's only six foot and in his 50's, but I noticed he always had an instinctive sense where the ball was going. He hauled down a bunch of rebounds simply by knowing intuitively where to be. He was playing against guys taller and younger and he always seemed to step right into a perfect position. He's very intense, but he's relaxed out there. His eyes are intense like someone really absorbed in what's going on around him. He was slapping balls out of kids hands--you need reflexive timming for that. For someone in their fifties he's very naturally athletic and fit. I don't think he anchored a zone, he is a zone. I can't tell you what a really genuine and warm person he is. He doesn't flaunt his intelligence either. He's very keyed into what you're saying. When I was doing some work with him back at his place, I always had the sense of being completely understood not only on an intellectual level, but on an emotional level. You don't get this from most people. He's intuitive in the extreme--I got the very distinct feeling he knew what was going on inside of me. It was quite a visit. I don't believe I'm building him up out of projections either.

He operates differently.

Teko

Teko,

Yes, I agree, Steve is in the zone. And he's willing to share with us how to get there. (or as far there as we can go with our undyslexic minds)

Thank you for sharing your adventure with him, with us. Makes the board more real, more alive. More personable.

Which brings me to U.G. Krishamutri. Does this guy seem real to you? Would you really want to experience life the way that he does? I've read some of his stuff. I like some of it, but in the end, I always think, "If that is the enlightened state that some are searching for, why bother?"

Much love,

Cyndy

Sent: 2:23 PM - 10/9 2000

Cyndy: I thought Krishnamurti was pretty mellow from his discourses. I know that UG thing sounded like it might not be very pleasurable. But in every day life Krishnamurti seemed okay.

This guy Steve sounds pretty neat. Someone told me about him over at the Freezone. When I first saw his tech I thought--this is sort of crazy. Remember I come from a scientology background. I'm not used to such odd ball ways of clearing. But I have a spirit of adventure and I was totally blown away by his tech once I let myself get into it. The breathing and the tapped me weirded me out at first run through. Then I got into it further and I was carving out some very deep places after a bunch of clears.

Well I know this guy Steve by his tech. This tech does some pretty intense things once you get it. I figure this guy has to be pretty damn into something to come up with this assortment of contraptions. The Grok Drills made me feel very at home in my body, just before I popped out.

Charles: I did a halfhour with your spinning rocking thing.

I wound up on the ceiling. I don't recommend this for anyone who hasn't exteriorized. It might freak them out.

Charles if you know a guaranteed way to pop back into your body, please post it. Someone might get really flipped out if they got hung up. You have to remember it's really strange for peopkle who have not done this sort of work.

So please Charles provide some tips to people so they can handle being out there and not back in here. For me it just happened. Kind of like will. And then you roll back in. But I don't know if that works for everyone.

Frank

Sorry all you Avatar devotees but I found 'walk for atonement'weak, dull, boring and I've done a few. And what is the point of contemplating spans of time? I never understood that. Perhaps I should be called 'Thick Head' instead. Still my life is not all woe, I'm having fish cakes for dinner and I really enjoy my vocation and I think I'm in the minority there as well.

OBEs. Aren't we already out of the body having a dream or belief that we are in a body in the 'physical universe'? We are being trans dimensional beings but our true home is beyond time and space but here and now. You believe you're in America. I believe I'm in England, it's all an illusion, we are all here... Where did that come from, I must be channeling?

Okay that was flippant and this is a sensible tech page, and it is not my intention to spoil it or encourage others.

Dick

Charles and Frank: Back in your bodies. The body is a Holy vessel, do not desecrate it!

Eldon, Yogi, and Karl: The Walk of Atonement? Isn't that what golfers do at the Masters in Georgia?

St. Fatimas has no room for people who can't sit still, let alone wander from their bodies.

Watching you closely, Sister Love

Frank, there were two guys named Krishnamurti.

Jiddu, the "original" Krishnamurti, traveled all over the world giving discourses and still has a great number of followers. Leadbeater, the Theosophy "thought forms" guy discovered him on a beach in India around 1914. In 1929, he dumped the large Theosophy organization that had been built up around him. A fascinating story.

The other one, U.G., basically discouraged people from working toward enlightenment, because he said that what happened to him was a rare, accidental occurrence. He met Jiddu and then went around denouncing him for some reason. A weird character, whose writings I instinctively disliked.

Many people confuse the two.

Best, Eldon

Sent: 1:25 AM - 10/10 2000

Eldon, Dick, and PG,

Eldon, that's a great story. What a cool idea - a destination! You think it would help me with my problem of bumping into the walls in my apartment??

PG - Yes, it makes sense. Oftentimes a realization will be building up just below our conscious awareness, and when we're ready, it breaks through into conscious awareness. It's just a natural process.

Dick, if the Walk isn't fun for you, ditch it, there's plenty of other fun stuff to play with here. Also, I'm not exactly an Avatar devotee. I'm not claiming Avatar is better or worse than any of the other techs. It just happens to be the one I have enough experience with to sometimes offer to people who ask questions about it. I think the Emoclear stuff is just as good or better, but I don't have nearly the degree of experience with it that many others on this page have, so they are better at fielding questions on those techs. Avatar is just one of the trees in the forest around here.

Yogi

Sent: 9:42 AM - 10/10 2000

Lyle and PG,

I usually combine the MG with either the DIE or the CHP these days. Both feel very similar in the way they discreate anxiety about an issue. The MG accelerates and adds extra clout to either one of them.

On discreating "I am": PG, how do you get around the loop of discreating the discreator? Does there not always have to be an identity that is running a process? Or does that spontaneously drop, too at some point? Harry Palmer holds that you can never fully discreate the sense "I", that you just keep pushing out your boundaries of the outer most limits of "I". How is it for you?

I have tried discreating "I", and hit some pretty expanded states once or twice, but I don't think I have ever completely gotten outside of any sense of "I" whatsoever. How about you? Please be honest. Even a very expanded state can still have a sense of an "I" having an experience.

Yogi

Yogi

Where do I find Emoclear stuff? Is it on the NAP Tech page, along with Grok and Vortex etc? I haven't found anything titled Emoclear though. Search engines can't find it.

Dick

Previously on the old board there was a discussion about the gains that some were experiencing from using the tech.

I would like to resume that discussion.

What differences are you experiencing in your life by using these transformational tools?

How have these experiences of satori and OBE's affected how you view life? Or are they merely experiences of entertainment?

Yogi, these experiences of expanded states from using MG with either the DIE or CHP in discreating the "I am", what value are they? What effect have they had on how you experience life?

For me, the "letting go", that I did over the weekend has left me in a very relaxed state toward life. The uptight broad, seems to have taken a vacation. There's no longer a charge on what will show up next for me, especially in relation to seeking a new vocation.

Now, if you all think you are headed in the direction of where U.G. is, please let me know, so I can jump ship now.

I really would appreciate your input. Do these expereinces of altered states then translate into transformational experiences that affect how we experience life?

Much love,

Cyndy

Yogi,

In the expanded, discreated state known as the "void", I have no sense of "I". Actually have no sense of anything. Or anything where I can use symbols to describe the experience.

What value is the experience of such a state? The knowledge of completeness, totality, unity.

So what value is the experience of such state to you?

Much love,

Cyndy

Sent: 11:57 AM - 10/10 2000

Hi everyone:

Steve Mensing gave me permission to post The Dreamstate Creator one of his Emoclear creation technologies. This is copyrighted material and orginally appeared in 1988 in a manual on naturalistic trances. The present form is an updated version. Warning: This process can install material at the unconscious/gut level and can create false memory syndrome (Actually believing this goal has already occurred and is a reality.) Although having such an envisioned reality is not dangerous, it is wise to really plan out what you intend to install at the unconscious/gut level. Do utilize the goal planning methods in section one and really give consideration to what you desire to have happen. Once this visualization is installed, it will likely create a powerful motivating force within you that will not be likely quelled by anything less than a completed goal. So choose your goals wisely because once your vision is installed at this level it will begin to unfold. In short be careful about what you ask for, you will probably get it. I don't want to alarm anyone, but when you operate at this level, it will feel like you are operating from a concrete reality. Be wise at the outset.

Special thanks to Steve Mensing for sharing one of his creation processes. Flying up to Mt. Meru!

THE DREAMSTATE CREATOR (PART 1)

The Dreamstate Creator is an Emoclear method for creating what you want to happen. It consists of (1) Simple goal construction. (2) Listing the steps to your goal. (3) Creating and focusing phrase and blowing out blocks, doubts, and fears concerning it becoming a reality. Here Emoclear clearing tech can be utilized. (4) Utilizing left nasal dominance breathing (Indian yoga), tapping and rubbing from energy work and kineasiology while visualizing accomplishing goals and their end results. (5) Adding submodalities(NLP) and tweeking them up to make visualizations more compelling. (6) Clearing any further blocks, doubts, or fears concerning this goal visualization and its installation. (7) Utilizing Ericksonian based questions to grease the shute into the unconscious and bring about dreamstate Installation of goal visualization.

(8) tips for further enhancement of process.

The Steps:

(1) SIMPLE GOAL CONSTRUCTION

Goals are what you desire from life, others, and yourself. Goals better be clear and specific--something you can measure and chart progress as you move toward fulfilling them. With goals you want a clear image of what you want and how you will go about getting there.

Here is a stepwise method for goal creation:

1) Jot down the experience you would enjoy having. (Career? Family? Social? Relationships? Health? Eating? Exercise?

Financial? Self-Improvement? Spiritual? Education? Travel? Something else?) Make this goal very clear and specific--avoid being general! When? Where? With whom? By how long? How much? Specify! Specify! Specify! You want clear definitions which can be measurable. Example: "I want to write a sci-fi novel of 658 typewritten pages and I want to complete it by November 8th of next year. I will write 20 pages a day for at least 6 days a week. I will write between 7 am and 8 am and again from 7pm to 10pm. I willl know all this books potential markets and I will hustle out query letters and sample to drafts to Uhooroo Press. Get the picture--clear and specific.

2) Make sure this goal generates good feelings and passion when you think about it.

3)Make certain this goal is doable by either you, a group, or machines.

4)Make sure your goal is measurable. Example: I want to read the book "The Joseph Smith Story" in one week from start to finish.

5) Commit yourself to your goal. Repeat your goal commitment to yourself with full intention. Really feel your full commitment. If blocks, doubts, or fears surface, jot them down and clear them when it comes time to clear them with your Emoclear clearing processes. Then fully commit again with full feeling.

6)See your goal in small steps. View mini-objectives strung together. Example: I want to clear my closets. See myself moving my boxes, loose clothes, gold bullion etc, Luger collection out of the closet. Getting the stuff down stairs. Tossing what needs to go in the trash.

7) Always experience your goals as something you want to accomplish. Avoid picturing what you don't want. You are picturing gain not loss. Example: I want to eat fish. Not: I don't want to eat meat.

8)Link goals to positive feelings from previous similar successes if possible. If you can't when you are jotting down your goal lists, tap your palm on the area just above your thymus. Do this gently and slowly for 12 taps.

9) Set a reasonable time frame to bring this goal to maturity.

10) Give it the old gravestone test. Is this something I'd like folks to remember me by? Would this goal look good on your gravestone? Example: Steve Mensing--King of the Bug Exterminators.

11)Imagine as if you have already achieved it (more on this in the visualization and dreamstate processes).

12)Only by doing your goals steps in real life does it actually get done. If blocks, doubts, and fears get in your way, they can be cleared. More on this later. Remember this: No matter what you're feeling, you can always just get up and do something valuable to get your goal moving.

GO to Dreamstate Creator Part 2

Sent: 12:35 PM - 10/10 2000

DREAMSTATE CREATOR PART 2

The steps continued:

(2) LISTING THE STEPS: Simply write out the steps to achieve your goal. This will be your visualization's ribwork.

1) Jot down as many details of your goal as possible.

2) See how you, others, and machines are involved in the steps. Don't focus too much on single incidents having to occur or specific people having to be there. This can calcify your goal's picture around these incidents or people. You want a flexible course of action.

3) Can you make your goal into even smaller steps?

4)What might keep you from achieving your goal? How can you eradicate these challenges? What had you better do?

5) What resources do you have available that will help you reach your goal? What training, resources, and skills do you require to make this goal happen?

6)View the rewards of achieving your goals--list as many as possible.

7) List many ways of doing what needs to be done and see how doing what needs to be done can be absorbing and fun? Fit this into your steps.

8)Show steps to handling any obstacles.

9)List your full commitment in the steps.

10) Show in the steps how you will respect and reward others involved in your goals outcome.

11)Make a simple list of knowledge you will have to have in order to achieve your goal. Know what is essential without getting bogged down in details.

12) List any wise and supportive counsel you may recieve and how you might access your own unconscious wisdom.

13) List the 3 most important reasons why your goal can be accomplished. How will you know you achived your goal?

14) How might your goal look 1 year from now? Or would it already be a reality? Are there important elements to be added to your list?

15) Rewrite the order of your list until until it feels harmonious and a good fit.

(3) CLEARING BLOCKS, DOUBTS, AND FEARS.

Create a simple focusing phrase that captures the essence of your goal. Example: "I am the author of "The Big Book" or "I own a major bank chain" Make your focusing phrase positive and in the present tense. Say this phrase aloud and with conviction. Do you feel any blocks, doubts, or fears coming up before, during, or after you make your statement. Pay attention to your body for feelings, to your inner voice, and to what you visually imagine. Some of you folks may actually smell trouble or have a bad taste about your goal. Jot these down as soon as you sense them. You may notice "Yeah, but" that old pseudo agreement. Or "No you can't" "You don't have what it takes." "You screwed up before." "They'll laugh at you."

Basically you'll be experiencing negative incoming flack in one of your sense modality. This is to be expected at first. Use your favorite Emoclear clearing tech or whatever you like to use to clear. You will clear blocks, doubts, and fears. Later on in this process you will sweep around again for any other blocks, doubts, or fears that may pop up. This clearing process helps to make the goal even more compelling before you drop into visualizations,powerful daydreams, and finally dreams.

GO TO SECTION III OF THE DREAMSTATE CREATOR

Sent: 1:26 PM - 10/10 2000

DREAMSTATE CREATOR PART 3

(4) VISUALIZE YOUR GOAL STEPS

Allow your body to relax from head to toe and breathe slowly through your left nostril only. Gently pinch your left nostril shut or lay on your right side until your left nostril becomes dominant.

On the first run through of visualizing your steps, simply allow yourself to visualize the steps. Nothing perfect here, just get a brief glimpse at first. The visualizing process will grow stronger each time you run through it.

See each step from start to finish. Use all your senses! See. Feel. hear. Smell. Taste. Do this one sense at a time and then begin to integrate the senses into a whole experience. Take your time. Have fun. During each visualized step you can gently tap 5 times on your third eye point which is a half inch up from an invisible line between your eyebrows. Next gently tap the top of your hand

on the outer part below your pinky and ring finger. If you are visualizing a step that describes your physical action, walk though it and feel it. After you have completed visualizing every step from start to finish, take your palm an slowly trace the center line of your body starting at your groin and winding up at the top of your head. Just gently touch this area as you slowly move upwards. You are tracing the central meridian and helping in the installation process. Do this upward tracing twice.

Prior to your second cycle of visualizations answer the following questions and do left nasal dominance breathing:

a) After I feel confident about my goal happening, how will I show this? Who will notice my completed goal first?

b)When my vision becomes a reality, what will I be doing?

Where will I be?

c) The moment my vision makes me feel good, what will I eat that evening? Who will I be with?

d) After my vision works itself out from start to finish in my life, who will praise this success? Will I accept the compliments or will I just blush?

e) When I completely believe this new reality, How I describe it to my friends?

(5) VISUALIZATION TWEEKING/INSTALLING

When your visualization begins to appear seemless and take on a life of its own, you can begin to tweek your submodalities(NLP) (Parts of each sense form. Here you will be intensifying your vision and making it more enjoyable and compelling. As you go through your visualization, check each submodality (parts of each sense form) and see if you want to intensify it, sharpen it, or make it even more real.

THE SUBMODALITIES

When you arrive at a submodality that you desire to alter, simply allow yourself to experience it. Continue your left nasal dominance breathing and tap gently on your third eye occasionally during the tweeking of the submodalities. When you have a submodality just right for you, slowly rub your fingers on the skin surrounding your ears. Start form the side of your sideburn and rub around the periphery of your ear until you get to the start of your neck. This assists in installing that particular submodality (sense form).

Here are the submodalities:

Visual: clarity, color, brightness, depth, distance, length of time visible, forward/backward motion of image/or "movie", directional movement, expanded/contracted image.

Body Sense: Weight, size, shape, temperature, movement, balance, rhythm,

Auditory: Pitch, tone, Timbre, tempo, volume, sound duration, distance, voice, words, distortion, clarity, off/on, location change,

Smell: Faint/strong, sweet, overwhelming, pungent, disgusting, sensual.

Taste: Strong/weak, good/bad, overwhelming, bitter, sour, tart, sickening,

As with visualizations, just allow the submodalities to be there and let your unconscious do the work. No forcing and your submodalities will happen the way you would want.

(6)RETEST AND CLEAR ANY BLOCKS, DOUBTS OR FEARS

Visualize and test for any remaining or new blocks and fears. Do it the way you did in Step 3 Clearing blocks, doubts, and fears.

***As visualizations begin to grow more fluid with practice or occur as spontaneous daydreams during the day, they may begin to spontaneously self-install in dreams. This is okay. Your Body/Mind is doing the work for you before you get to dream installation. This frequently happens and is nothing to be concerned about.

Visualize as many times as it takes for your visualization to become seemless and spontaneous. This is good practice. This will make it easier for other Dreamstate Creations down the line. Left nasal dominance makes this work easier. Lots of visualizing sends it down into the unconscious will it will soon be the object of dreaming.

GO to DREAMSTATE CREATION Part 4

Sent: 1:56 PM - 10/10 2000

DREAMSTATE CREATOR Part 4

(7) DREAMSTATE INSTALLATION

Do left nasal dominance breathing as mentioned previously.

Continue this breathing all through these questions. Allow your attention to playfully attend to these questions and fully experience the answers.

You may ask yourself these questions during the day and then at night prior to going to bed. Just experience what comes up. There are no perfect right or wrong answers. These questions will help install your vision at the dreamstate level if your visualizations and daydreams have not brought you there already.

If you have any blocks, doubts, or fears regarding dreamstate installation, experience them now and clear them with your clearing tech.

The questions:

1. After I strongly view what is required to complete my goal, will I pay attention to the way I do it or to its outcome?

2. After I clearly view what needs to be done to complete my goal, will I notice the end result or the rewards I will achieve from attaining my goal?

3. After my visualization turns into a strongly felt daydream, how might my goal's success appear in a dream?

Will I wake up much later with a satisfied feeling? Or will I dream of another completed goal?

4. When you have dreamed about your goal's success several night in a row, how much more confident will you feel about your goal happening? How will you show this confidence to others?

5. Will you dream about your successful goal tonight, tomorrow, or by the end of the week. How will you look back 3 years from now and see how your dream of a successful goal impacted on your life? What good feelings would you feel?

6. After you dreamed about your successful goal as Bright, colorful, vivid, comfortably loud, and strongly felt, will you share your dream with others, let it fade back into your unconscious, or keep it to yourself?

7. Is it possible you've already dreamed about your goal during the last day or two, and you woke up only to have it slip back into your unconscious? Would you recognize that you likely dreamed about it because you felt supremely confident about your successful goal and its completion?

8. After you've dreamed several times about your successful goal, what are the first steps that you will now take to ensure your goal becoming true?

9. After your dream is installed, what part of your succesful goal will begin to actualize first?

10. When you really feel good and confident about your goal, what might you dream of next?

TIP

Do what you need to do to carry out your visions and dreams to full completion.

Special thanks to Steve Mensing from Barry Friedberg

Sent: 2:07 PM - 10/10 2000

I was just cruising by when I saw this monster down below. The Dreamstate Creator looks totally kickass! I sense if I did half of that stuff I'd have installed something very powerful. This isn't a belief being installed, this is a power vision. A full out movie. I see a lot of care and preparation in this creation process. I was checking here yesterday and today to see when this thing would show up. I was psyched when someone said it would create false memory syndrome. Steve doesn't screw around. I can see where this thing would drive the creation down deep into your subconscious. Those final questions are just icing on the cake. They are fully loaded up with Ericksonian presuppositions. Not only do you blow out secondaries--you load a whole well planned vision into your unconscious. My printer is ready to go!

Thanks Steve and Barry for putting it up.

John Gastly

Sent: 4:14 PM - 10/10 2000

I've worked with an outline of this process Dreamstate Creator that Steve emailed. It is extremely strong brew. I visualized a promotion at work and how I would go about and get it. I don't recall dreaming about it, although I suspect I did. Because one morning I got up and felt for certain I had already been promoted. It was weird. I felt like I already got this promotion and I had to question myself if it was true. I went to work that day and cornered my boss. I mean cornered him. He took me into his office and we talked about the job. I was cocky to say the least--I told him in no uncertain terms that the job was mine. I told him why too. Anything he said to the contrary I shot down. I'm not shy--but I'm not brazenly outspoken. I hauled him out of the office and showed him my files and what I accomplished. I felt totally entitled to that promotion. It felt like it was already mine. My boss was just a secondary. Well my boss said let me think about. About twenty minutes later he called my competition into his office and 10 minutes the guy walked out and he was pure hang dog. I knew what happened--I figured it easy.

I knew that friggin job was mine. About an hour later my boss told me the promotion was mine.

If I hadn't done the Dreamstate Creator I know for sure I wouldn't have had the moxey to corner my boss like that or to be so cocky. I know it shaped some very powerful attitudes in me. I believe it set me up in such a way that I was putting out this vibe and sureness that made me the obvious pick. In retrospect I think it would've been a close call for my boss and one he might have put off for a couple of months. I forced the issue. I really felt that promotion belonged to me. The Dreamstate Creator makes a pretty potent cup of creation. Hey I'm thinking about my boss's job--what do you think? Or maybe an upward transfer to another division?

Thanks to Steve! Hey Barry how's grad school going? Miss your posts.

William Tekada

Sent: 4:32 PM - 10/10 2000

I just got through printing out the new Emoclear tech on the board. It looks very compelling to say the least. I think it's really good of Steven to have this material posted on the board. It's been a great help from the first time I've used it. I'm a huge fan of the M.G., the D.I.E, the Grok Drill.

Cyndy:

I'm a bit afaid yet of having an OBE. I saw that post. I'm not sure what that would be like. I imagine it would be very overwhelming to look at my body from someplace else.

I also think it would put to rest any notions that I was only my body. Sometimes I wonder if it's just advanced dissociation. I guess if it happens, it happens. I know I would probably be thinking about it for a few days. And I'd be going over to Borders to buy books describing what I just experienced. I don't know if I'd welcome that experience yet. Can you get scared doing it? Maybe I could pull that off better in a group. At this point in time the idea scares me some. I'm just integrating blowing out my ego breifly with the M.G and with the Grok Drill. Give me time.

Jenna

I want you think about somebody or some situation that is particularly agitating but try not to pick the worst thing in your life right now; we will build up to that. (We learn how to crawl before we learn how to walk, so as you learn now to use the technique you will eventually begin using it on more complex matters.) So think about some annoying person in your life, maybe in the office, maybe at home, or some situation that you would like to change. Point or tilt your head down slightly towards your stomach or chest area which is your feeling center. This is the area where you can erase things. That's the erasing mode, the "erase" button. If you only access the head, all it does is it record and play back information. It does not erase thoughts or feelings. If you push the "erase" button and access your stomach or chest, you will be in the erasing mode.

Because this is such a new and different concept, let's play with it and try it so you can comprehend the experience. So think about a person or situation that is not so wonderful in your life. Point or tilt your head down towards your feeling center (your stomach or chest). This disengages your head and activates the feeling center, which is the erase mode. You will notice an unwanted energy i your stomach or chest area. Take some time to notice it. We are just looking for some energy out of harmony in that area. Maybe it is a clutching feeling or a knot in that area. Again, notice that it is an unwanted energy.

The way one drills for oil is to first find the oil then sink a rig or pipe into the oil pocket. Next, the pipe is uncapped and then the oil or energy comes shooting out. In Kuwait, the oil rigs were capped with cement in order to stop the oil from bursting out after Saddam Hussein tried to destroy the oil fields. Now, this unwanted energy that is trapped in our stomach and our chest wants to leave. The problem is it will not leave if you access your head. It will only leave from your stomach or your chest. So once again, think about that situation or person that is particularly bothersome. Put your head down. Put an imaginary tube into that unwanted energy, uncap it and allow it to come shooting out.

Now allow more to come shooting out. And more and more and more . . .

Notice if you feel lighter. All we are looking for right now is a little sign of lightness to show you that you can erase things. You might already see that when you think about that undesirable situation or undesirable person, you are not as bothered as you were before--just a second ago. Now think again about some situation or person that is not so wonderful in your life, put an imaginary rig or tube into that energy, that unwanted energy, uncap the tube and allow that energy to come shooting out.

If there is more energy there, it means you have to go deeper. So put the tube into the energy, go deeper into that unwanted energy and allow it to come passing through. And more, and more, and even more . . .

Now think of something that agitates you; that aggravates you. Notice there is an unwanted energy in your stomach or your chest by putting your head down. Disengage your head and note it shows up in your stomach or your chest. And could you just allow that energy to leave? Invite it up out of the tube. And more, and more, and even more! If you find an unwanted energy in your stomach or your chest and the rig and tube allusions are not working for you, can you instead create an imaginary window, right where this energy is? Where this agitation is? Open up the window, wide open, and just allow the energy to leave through the window. And more, and more, and even more!

Take a check and see if you are as bothered as you were before, a second ago before you let this energy go. Again, we are just looking for a light feeling and we are more or less crawling around right now, exploring how to use this wonderful technique. It is different but everybody can it. So just let's experiment with it some more.

Sent: 7:04 PM - 10/10 2000

Steve:

Thanks ever so much for your high powered creation tech: The

Dreamstate Creator.

I appreciate the great effort and planning put into this creation device.

I like the idea of well planned goals and well thought out steps to attaining those goals. Further your way of engineering the visualizations by focusing on senses, left nasal breathwork, the use of submodalities makes these visualizations powerful. Your unique way of energetically installing these visualizations is highly creative. You use of Ericksonian phrasing at the tail end of the exercise is real genius. Whether you produce clearing tech or creation tech you do a first rate job. Your personal style is quite evident. Your productions have your own unique signature on them.

Poster: the Release Technique/Sedona Method was one of the first techs I ever learned. It is a good and solid tech.

Lock it into an MG. and you will release endlessly all the way back to the original incident in some cases.

Lyel Talbot

Sent: 7:47 PM - 10/10 2000

Poster, I disagree with some of your observations on feelings and thoughts. I have completely released and processed feelings and thoughts without lowering my head or experiencing my feelings or thoughts as something I wanted to get rid of. Further I have released and processed out feelings and thoughts without focusing specifically on my chest or stomach. I generally focus on the feelings and thoughts and experience them wherever they are in my body.

I've yet to see one poster focus on their thoughts unless they are "thought tuning" with a strict energy therapy like the Vortex or EFT. That's a different approach all together. And that's already proven to work by zapping out the perturbations that hold a feeling together. This is a whole different approach to standard releasing. It works on a completely different wavelength. The end result is the same. It totally blows out thoughts, feelings, pains etc. It is head focused, but really just to tune into what's running. The entire feeling and its energetic anchor in the body is completely eradicated. Nothing left. The Vortex on this page's tech is an example. The M.G. can be used energetically by focusing on thoughts and using erasing statements. This will blow something out energetically and completely. The M.G. is like a reversible jacket. You can make it a feelings-oriented tech by simply tuning into your feelings where ever they reside with a sense of openess and full acceptance, and the feelings get processed into energetic formlessness.

Seeing feelings and thoughts as "unwanted energy" can create great resistance for most people. Do that tube, but do it with wanted energy. Love your anxiety, your depression, your anger, your so called enemies. Love and except them where ever they are in your body and your body will accept them and process them all the way out. Plus having an accepting or even loving attitude toward your feelings will eventually help you naturally and sponstaneously process feelings through release. When releasing spontaneously occurs, it occurs because we are willing to be with our feelings and let them be there. Our negative attitudes toward our feelings will create resistance and keep them there to haunt us and make us feel crummy. We need our negative feelings and thoughts to send signals to us that something is not quite right. Then we can fully experience and allow them to alter into formlessness.

Many feelings and thoughts can be found outside our chest and stomach area. In the trapezius. In the shoulders and neck. Lots of anger and confusion can be had in these odd and out of the way areas. Be willing to scan your entire body. Feelings can even be found in the legs and arms. Head too on rare occaisions. Feelings can also be outside of the body.

The release technique is good. It can be found fully explained in Michael Hutchison's "Mega Brain Power". Also Peter Shepard explains the process in a step by step way on the internet. Check out: Http://fza.org/transform/transform3.14.htm

Our own page has a sophisticated and powerful release tech called the D.I.E. it is a brother of the Sedona. My own estimate is that it completely leaves the Sedona in its wake. And the Sedona is pretty damn good.

Preston

Sent: 8:12 PM - 10/10 2000

Hey I really like what I see of this new Emoclear tech the Dreamstate Creator. I can think of about 5 items I can use it on for starters.

Poster, I'm really unsure about putting visualizations onto my release targets. I used to use the NLP trashcan technique until I discovered I was just dissociating out of my awareness and not really altering or releasing it at all.

Those tubes and windows sound great, but they may just be dissociating us temporarily from our emotions. The emotion or belief may vanish visually, but the rest of it may come back to haunt us with avengeance. I have also read that things dissociated with the "trashcans" would still show up on the cans or emeters. These windows and tubes seem like the same thing. I don't mind visualizations to change a label. Or the old NLP literal picture frames. But something that makes the emotion or belief dissapear visually doesn't cut it.

Also I question your hostile sense of your emotions and beliefs. I think they can make an emotion or belief get stuck. Maybe you're employing the wrong words in your descriptions. I agree with Preston that feelings can be found in other places besides the torso. You've heard of the old expression pain in the neck. Or a pain in the ass.

Best bet is just to feel them whereever they are.

George

Sent: 10:16 PM - 10/10 2000

Cyndy:

I found Satori to be nourishing and opened me to another perspective on my world. The world made more sense to me afterwards. I cut away a good chunk of my alienation.

I've only had a few OBE's. They helped me realize my awareness is non local and again it taught me about my reality. On some level it undercut much of my fear of death.

Teko

Sent: 10:18 PM - 10/10 2000

I meant to post a thank you for this free creation tech that Steve created and Barry posted. It looks super useful and compelling.

Teko

William Tekada,

That is some awesome stuff you accomplished regarding the promotion and the butt-kicking you did to get it. I think it's time to acknowledge that YOU, personally, are an inspiration in action. You scripted that movie bigtime, and the special effects were sublime.

Congratulations!

Best, Eldon

Sent: 7:43 AM - 10/11 2000

Hello: This new tech looks pretty potent. I shall look forward to doing in shortly. The tail of the beast looks like Ericksonian language patterns that might presuppose you were already in the process of getting ready to dream. Very well put together. I have to say that linking it with false memory syndrome may bring a negative conotation to a few onlookers. I don't believe they should have anything to fear. It was wise to include the goal setting at the start because installing a vision should be well planned out. Visions are powerful things--you need to take care in what you are desiring. With material like this process, you raise the probability enormously. I have used visualizations in my own life and in my therapeutic practice. However I've never employed such careful planning, submodalities, erasing doubts, fears, blocks. And I've never asked laced questions that set up hynotic realities leading to dream installation. This is very creative!

Thank you Steven, Henry Gale Lanford

Sent: 9:41 AM - 10/11 2000

Eldon,

How is the Source Book progressing? Is that why you have been so quiet lately? Is the Examine board gone for good?

I'm working on it, but I want to get it right so I am having it reviewed by some experts. There will be a web site at www.sourcecourse.com when it is available. However, it will basically be what you would expect if you got take-home notes, minus sales pitch.

You have more powerful stuff to work with right now at the link at the top of this page.

I'm not being modest, and I'm not kidding either. I'm only doing a viable alternative that is laid out so people can follow it easily and share their experience as they wish without the secrecy mumbo-jumbo. Teko already did that on this board in his way, but I'm doing it on paper with fill-in-the blanks stuff.

I hope you like it. If you don't, send it back for a refund.

Best, Eldon

Sent: 1:39 PM - 10/11 2000

Eldon, you say it is basically what you would expect if you got take home notes--take home notes from what?

Lyle, you mentioned something about a multi-solution generator as an aid in pinpointing issues, conflicts, etc...

What is it and where can it be found?

Sent: 2:01 PM - 10/11 2000

The Multi-Solutions Generator was created by Steve Mensing

and can be found in that red NAP Technology Section at the very top of this Awareness Page Forum. Just click on NAP Tech and scroll down that ever growing list of great Emoclear processes. Basically it is a fantastic self-help problem solver. You discover solutions to your challenges by answering this very well conceived infentory. The questions are asked in this very unique style that ellicits your talents and abilities to see through a problem. Steve explains it lucidly in his introduction. It has six sets of questions. It like going to a Solutions-Oreinted and Ericksonian Therapist. It is really a work of supreme creativity and orginality. If you're depressed, it leads you into a hopeful and terribly realistic view of your problem. It shreds stuck viewpoints pretty quickly.

Lyle Talbot

Sent: 4:30 PM - 10/11 2000

Our group tackled the Grok Drills again and enjoyed many gains and openings. The Grok Drills are really excellent tools for a group experience as are the M.G. and D.I.E.

The Groks can be done in twosomes, each partner taking turns in the questioning roll.

Derek & Cindy

Sent: 4:42 PM - 10/11 2000

I've heard there some very extroidinary tech here. I clicked the red NAP Technology link, but it seems to be down. Is there a specific time when it is up?

Christine

Jenna and Cindy,

From scanning the guestbook I just realized that we live very close together.

I would love to meet you. Maybe we all can get together and shoot some hoops like Teko and Steve did. (just kidding)

My e-mail is at top of page. It just boggles my mind that the we live so close together.

Much love,

Cyndy

Sent: 12:05 AM - 10/12 2000

You are right on that it relaxes the whole attitude about life. Also it opens you up in terms of creating more space in one's awareness. The need to react to any particular stimilus, that is to be at effect of someone's else's issues, is greatly reduced. However, it is not a disassociated state - empathy and compassion arise from the open space. It is not an unemotional state, if anything, emotions are clearer and more powerful, but now they have room to move without getting stuck, and the knee-jerk reactions to them are gone. Instead of fight- or - flight, a real awareness of the issue, and even a kind of curiosity comes. It's like "Whoa, that's different, what is going on with that?" Life becomes interesting, there's a realization that every moment the existence is flowering blissfully into exactly the next right experience. Boredom never happens anymore. If there is not activity, silence itself leads back to bliss. A trust arises that is not dependent upon a religious belief in a super-entity.

This is my experience.

I still get angry at times, sure, and I make as many mistakes as I ever did. I still have my personality traits, like absentmindedness, and slight dyslexia. These expanded states did not make me suddenly rich, they did not make all the pretty women suddenly available to me, they did not make me extraordinary in any way at all. On the contrary, now I am absolutely happy to be an ordinary guy. The curious side effect is that after a while, you don't need expanded states to feel you've accomplished something.

I was having a nice discussion with my Mom the other night. She is 77 years old and has ALS. She has to be assisted to move around and the feeling is almost completely gone from the left side of her body. I asked her how she's doing these days. She says she doesn't do much, read books, and get around a little in her wheelchair. She asked me, "How are you?" I said "Busy". My Mom said, "It's been a long time since I was busy." I said, "Well, at your age I guess it's not the thing to do, to be busy all the time. The people who are my age all seem busy, and I'm busy, too."

My Mom says, "Why do you think that is?" I said,"I guess we don't have anything better to do than stay busy."

My mom laughed very gently, and we were both quiet for awhile. My Mom's a sage.

Thanks for asking, I usually don't get the opportunity to share in this way.

Love,

Yogi

Yogi,

Thank you for sharing.

I am still curious, what are you others noticing about how you are experiecing life, after using these transformational tools?

What shifts, what attitudes have been changed?

Come one, this is going to be a commercial for Steve's tech.

I'm just kidding here. I thinks sometime it's important, to stop and recognize the place that we are at (present moment) and say, WOW. Look at how grand this stuff works.

Much love,

Cyndy

Sent: 7:10 AM - 10/12 2000

Last night the political "Prince Ramon" post below was followed by a political post critical of Eldon Braun and I posted that both should go somewhere else. Today, I see that the webmaster has deleted the political post critical of Eldon and my post for them both to get lost, but left the Ramon post.

I wonder if anyone else thinks this is unfair. I don't believe this board should become a refuge for Slaughter and Braun's attack on Avatar or Harry Palmer, which it apparently has.

I'm not in favor of this. I believe the board should be neutral and not just pretend to be neutral. I know that SE has let a lot slide here. I'm not sure they will if it becomes a place of attack against them.

The NAP Tech Page had some technical difficulties. It should not be back up and running. You can find Steve Mensing's great processes there.

PG, if you would like to email me I would gladly answer your "Questions".

Sent: 8:41 AM - 10/12 2000

Pg:

SE let a lot slide? SE doesn't control this board. This is a tech board. Prince Ramon is speaking about a forthcoming book or workbook or whatever. I admit he trots a thin line in his opinion about the organization. It's not defamatory--but I don't think it's tech. He was okay in stating his opinion about the tech's origins. I think he could have used a little more savvy in how he described the org. This heads over into the lane of politics. The colorings we employ in words are very important. Maybe if the Prince would rewrite his viewpoints and cut out the slightly defamatory statements like "unsuspecting". "MLM"

and just stick to the tech. Maybe if he would be so kind as to do a rewrite and stick to the facts concenrning tech.

Leave out opinions of the org. Then maybe the webmaster could clip the original. We desire to be a tech only page. We don't need this other nuttyness over here. However I don't like the idea that someone can come in here and make a statement on "SE lets it slide." That gives a rather bad impression of SE don't you think PG. SE really has no choice in the matter because everything I've seen being done here has been within the law. Threats and harrassment here will most certainly bring in the ACLU and the FBI I'm certain. If this board came down I would make an enormous stink about it. My son in law is a treasury agent, I'm sure he would know where to steer me. We want this a tech only board. Period.

I urge everyone to abide by the webby's rules about not mixing tech and politics. Prince it would be better if you thought about your tone when delivering your information.

Lyle Talbot

Sent: 8:59 AM - 10/12 2000

Cyndy:

I've probably have had familiarity with Steve Mensing's Emoclear approach the longest on this board. I knew about it several years when a fellow therapist and clearing practitioner gave me some information on several of Steve's processes. I'm mostly retired from a career as a clincial social worker. I maintain a small practice in clearing and brief therapy. I have witnessed clients making great strides in their lives using Steve's tech. The more a person clears, the more personal energy they have. Their outlook is unfettered by crap and charge. They partake in a world with more clarity. They are not suffering from emotional dictates. In my own life from using this tech I have found I'm a more joyous person who experiences less run arounds from my emotions. I feel clear and centered. I still have emotions, but they do not push me around or force me into compulsive approaches to living. I have developed more of an open acceptance of life. Life makes sense to me. I'm far less in my head untless I am required to be. None of my feelings have power over me. My choices are clearer. I used to be cynical to some degree. I am far less likely to get into a rope pull with Elizabeth over issues in our relationship. I feel more in the present and upbeat which I believe is closer to out natural status. Nothing really gets me down. I'm not oblivious. I get a clearer sense of life. There's also this sense that a mass has been taken away. My body is far more relaxed than it was several years back. I release often naturally.

I trust that wasn't too vague.

Lyle Talbot

Sent: 10:15 PM - 10/12 2000

Someone asked me where the "Emoclear" tech was. I have been thinking that "Emoclear " is a broad term under which many of the techs developed by Steve and posted here by Barry fall. Is this correct? If not, I would like to know, so that I give out good information if someone is asking about the tech. -Y

Sent: 10:34 PM - 10/12 2000

Pro, I'd be really curious to see this tech you're talking about. I've never bought into the AcashIK record one little bit. It seems absolutely silly--a goofy newage belief. So I'm dubious about any tech that comes out of the Acashik Record. It would seem like hooey-but I'd keep my mind open. Sell me. Show me some tech. I don't think anyone would pay 9.99 for some more secret stuff.

Why are you so bent out of shape by the Prince? I don't see anything political in his statement. He mearly stated

his idea that Eldon's Source Course is better than a certain mlm course that was borrowed from Tarthang Tulku and others. People have preferences around here. Some people like Sedona or don't like it. Some people love Emoclear--there was some criticism. Some people like Avatar--some people arn't thrilled with it. Some like Core trans--some complain about the length. Why are some people quick to equate Avatar with some Holy thing that no one should have a negative opinion of. Many people don't go along with the Prince's assessment of the Florida MLM--that's their opinion and they live in America and they are free to have it. This board has not been political since it became the forum and it really wasn't that way since the webby laid down the law that this was a tech only board.

Pro: if you've you've got a gripe you should go right to the webby in a non threatening way. He really doesn't want politics here and neither do any of us. Lyle doesn't. Okay maybe the Prince could have chosen less inflamatory words. People are consumers here--they want to hear about a tech and what people did with it. They like opinions and experiments.

I think that's reasonable. Why are some people so darn protective about Avatar. Can't it stand on its own? Do people need to prop it up and protect it? I think most people around here think it's okay. It clears and does creation. What do you want?

Larry Hinds

In your statement about your Acashic Record tech you are claiming its the best thing anyone's seen. So I guess your saying it's superior to that certain Florida based MLM.

But you for selling purposes it might be a good idea to disengage it from the Acashic Record because most people would get super turned off by that New Age stuff.

Sent: 10:53 PM - 10/12 2000

Cyndy: I am not living in the Cleveland area now. However I may return to Cleveland around the Thanksgiving Holidays.

If I do, I would love to meet you.

Yogi: From what I understand from reading the board Emoclear is the name of all of Steve's tech. Or at least

his clearing and creation tech.

I wish people would put this politics stuff aside before it gets out of hand. Maybe the webmaster should post rules about what can be posted. This is a tech only board. I think people who have something negative to say about a tech should do it in a less offensive and personalizing way. I think the Prince stepped over the line in his description. I think that's very much uncalled for and it just brings counter posts that bring counter posts. We soon get buried by a bunch of things that would be better said at Examine. And if you see something, instead of flying off, email the webmaster. Politeness never hurt anyone. Real derogatory statements make people cringe from what you're trying to say. Thumbs down on politics here!

Jenna

I hope this message is accepted the way I offer it: as a positive acknowledgement of the only running commentary of awareness raising technologies on the net. I read every post with interest, and marvel at the courage and discipline you guys have to try this stuff. I love Mensing and wish I had Teko's experience of meeting him, and doing some personal work with him. Mensing is way out there, and we're all fortunate to have him here.

But the most unappreciated person on this board is your web master, who put it here, and keeps it up here. It does take some work, and has taken some courage, I think. For those who don't know, it does not take much to get a board taken down: a few legal threats or a real lawsuit to a service provider, and down it goes. I pray none here take that as a threat: I want this board here as much as you do. And I think many here would be surprised at the quality of some who lurk here and never post: they just like reading it. Sure, I've had posts deleted here, and I've requested some others come down: sometimes I win, and sometimes I lose. But I have always respected that the Webbie has acted in an even handed manner to keep this forum here, and to be fair to all.

Everyone here knows my politics, and where to read them if they desire. But I don't promote my politics here, and I have not since I "took the vow" back in August. I hope politics never come back here: we already have a forum for that, and I do the work to keep that one available. I didn't do it because I like the battle: I did it because I didn't want the battle to be on this tech board.

You guys keep up the good work, and take it easy on your Webbie. I'm sure he does plenty here, for little thanks. I don't want to add to his woes: I'm just glad he's here. How about you?

Webbie: delete this if you like. But every word is sincere.

Your friend

Jim

Hey kids,

I was asked a question, and I attempted to give a straightforward answer about a tech manual I am developing. I wish Prince Ramon had not used that as an opportunity to rap a certain organization which will be judged on its own merits. I further wish "PG" would NOT identify me with John Slaughter. I don't know him, and I am not in cahoots with him in any way.

I do my political yapping on the alt.clearing.avatar, alt.clearing.technology and alt.religion.scientology newsgroups. And did on the Examine 2000 board until its demise.

---------

And now on the pure topic of tech, a little observation about Steve's Dreamstate/Creation procedure. Yeah, it's pretty powerful stuff. What I really liked was the semi-warning about how you should plan out your goals realistically and stick to feasible creations--because this stuff is really gonna convince you! Please do not wake up tomorrow imagining that you are Sister Love's boss! You might behave strangely!

That one's pretty subliminal, Steve. You almost slipped it past me ;-)

LOL, Eldon

Sent: 7:50 AM - 10/13 2000

I apologize for stepping over the line with my post about the Source Course. In the name of peace and goodwill, I will take Steve's, Eldon's, and Jim's advice on future posts.

As I read back I note I was overly harsh. I urge the webmaster to strike out my Source Course post.

I will not discuss Wizards because would upset several factions on this board.

Peace and regret, Prince Ramon

Thank you all for agreeing to return this forum to a completely tech page. I think we all would really like to see it remain that way. I had hoped that I wouldn't have to post "rules", but it seems that I may have to.

Anyway, the DREAMSTATE CREATOR is now up on the tech page. Go check it out.

And now lets get back to tech talk.

Sent: 1:08 PM - 10/13 2000

I've seen some pretty neat tech and philosophical discussion on this board. There is some politics, but not much. It seems like a fair place.

Sent: 3:49 PM - 10/13 2000

Whoops. Is this any shorter?

http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=m&tid=1e0a1d1d0c190a4d49&sid=1e0a1d1d0c190a4d493&mid=1&g=1

After reading Posters posting of the 'Release Technique'I don't agree with the idea that all feelings are located in the torso or adomen region. In fact I'd like to cone this one in searchlights and shoot it down in flames. This is erroneous tech. Feelings are evident all over the body no less the head. This is an area that gets dismissed and tends to get left out of clearing. But the head is full of feelings. Where did you feel your first blush? Where do you feel the shear frustration and rage when you forget something crucial? Where do you feel dirty when you have commited a harmful act? Does your scalp itch when you are stressed?

I see people rubbing their faces and eyes all the time, I don't see so many people rubbing their torsos.

The poor old head gets left out; the trend is to ignore the head. I believe this trend began back in the sixties with bodyworkers, bio energenics etc. All they were saying is that you can't feel while you are rationalising, this evolved to "Get out of your head" and evolved again to "Your head can't feel" True the brain can't feel itself but I'm not talking about the brain. This progression has caused clients subliminaly disassociate from their head and in the client therapist relationship timidness in mentioning head feelings. Anyone who wants to reassociate with their head, meditate on Edvard Munches's painting 'The Scream'.

Dick

Sent: 4:33 PM - 10/13 2000

Richard: Feelings are all through our body. Head and toes included. When I was doing some work with Steve up in Philadelphia, he had me fully conect with two very powerful feelings and their attendent trances. One was back where my neck connected with my ear in the head region. When I reexperienced the pain there, I hallucinated vividly just before everything began to thin out. That specific feeling was connected with some anger scenes a little further down my neck. In turn they were allowed to be, fully experienced, and then the body did the rest. Steve said the entire body can be a repository for many feelings. Certain kinds seem to stay near certain organs and meridians, but not all the time. According to Steve, certain feelings can actually be echo sites. These echo sites are feelings that have migrated from other sites during trauma and injury. Further some of out feelings can be dissociated completely out of our bodies and can only be accessed through the head and being felt back into the body perimeter. Traumas and hallucingens can produce these.

Never leave out the head, the legs, the arms. However feelings, from any place in the body, can be transferred into the heart region and solar plexus and experienced there. For some reason these areas are good places to allow feelings to be fully felt. The releasing process and transforming processes seem to be speed up here. Maybe because the energy flows here in abundance. Maybe this is what Poster meant. The entire body is a field of feeling and meridians.

Teko

Sent: 4:34 PM - 10/13 2000

This may sound funny, but I'm absolutely serious. I experience a really neat energy release by pulling on my own ears and shaking them. Try it privately. Don't hurt yourself and see what you think. I find that it raises my body temperature.

Sent: 5:26 PM - 10/13 2000

I apologize if I have accidentally misled some of you. I am not the author of the post written down below. It is from Larry Crane who has developed a form of the Sedona Method called- The Release Technique. The post was taken directly from his website. It is different than the standard Sedone Method. I contacted Hale one time to see if this person is supported by them. Hale said that Crane's technique is fully authorized and encourage by Sedona. It seems Crane was a personal friend of Lester Levenson. Frankly, I haven't been able to get into the Technique too much myself, but thought you guys would get a kick out of seeing it. It seems you guys don't think too much of it.

Sometimes I think the Sedona Method works because of its repitition. If you keep asking, "could I let this go," over and over, your mind finally gets tired and replies, "ok, I'll let the damn thing go. Now shut up!"

Wonder what Steve thinks of that theory.

Sent: 6:23 PM - 10/13 2000

Poster:

I love the old Sedona method. My brother Andrew learned it directly from Lester years ago at Saratoga Springs, NY. I remember the day Andrew first told me about releasing.

I'm not much on theorizing because there's so many darn ways to tell the story. Releasing may work for a number of these reasons:

1.You get pretty relaxed from releasing energy, and that sets up a situation where you can let go of your target--process it through.

2.You notice it's not fully apart of you, it's that little enegy smear over there. This is relaxing and sets up a precident for natural human processing.

3. A mental precident is set up--it's okay to let it go. Part of you recognizes this and guess what, you let it go.

4. It pretty much patterns our natural way of releasing. You just become consciouslly attuned to it.

5. And yes you could get pretty darn tired of making that pattern statement, and your body just shrugs it into a release. Maybe if you don't like that wording, you might develop something else parrallel that would make it more interesting for you.

6. Just relaxing and accepting something is there, with no intention of forcing it away or keeping it, can grease the downward shute. We spontaneously release all the time. Our body often does this out of our awareness.

As for tubes, if that creates a relaxing atmosphere to release in, that could help. Having it in our mind to make something dissapear may create a resistance for some folks or lead to just dissociating the visual part. I'd really have to know more how this tube action is used. Some visualizations can as I said, help to relax and set up the climate for natural releasing.

PG: I don't know about ear shaking, but I do know that a lot of meridians are well represented in the ears. You could conceivably rub them and assist in releasing. Ears often get hot during anxiety and anger.

Richard/Teko: The entire body encompasses feeling. From head to toe. Releaxing, deep breathing, and doing the old body scan can really tune you in. A lot of feelings are in the torso area. The heart and hara area are fine areas to experience and process feelings. The head most definately has feeling. I've worked with feelings at the very top of the scalp and all the way down into the feet. You don't have to go into any gyrations or percussings to bring this stuff up. Feelings can all so be found on the back of the body too. You need to lay on your belly to access these.

The back, save for the shoulder and neck regions, isn't as feeling populated as the front of the body.

One point, if you can get a feeling to migrate to the heart or hara regions, you'll have an easier time bringing it to natural maturity.

Sensate focusing is an early, but interesting method of accessing and exploring feelings. Peter Shepherd wrote a piece on it that can be found on a link at FZA. He also wrote on the release technique and the steps to doing it.

The name of his book on FZA has the word "transformation" in it.

Hey happy Friday the 13th!

Steve

Sent: 11:01 PM - 10/13 2000

PG, I got tremendous lift from shaking my ears. The left ailleron disengaged and I wound up on the floor and lost consciousness. When I came too, someone was pulling my leg and not my massive ears.

Dumbo

Hey Prince,

My only objection to your previous post was its opinionated (I might even say snotty) tone. I see nothing particularly political about stating facts about tech availability, presentation format and delivery in an even-handed way. How it's done is part of how it works.

In fact, I see nothing wrong with discussing ANY tech, including the Wizards course, in a tech forum. If parts of that course are political by nature (dealing with organizational strategy, marketing and so forth), then those would probably be off topic. But the parts that relate to consciousness raising would seem on topic and appropriate.

If, for example, I wanted to ask about the efficacy of Scientology's practice of exorcising alien spirits (or Body Thetans, sometimes jocularly referred to as "space cooties") in relation to the recent posts about various energy centers of the body, then I would consider that a tech discussion. Maybe a little far out, but it IS a form of tech. So are Shamanism, Voodoo and Santeria and Catholic confessionals for that matter.

Best, Eldon

Sent: 6:02 AM - 10/14 2000

I believe you come right to the heart of the matter, Elton. You state that you don't see this, and you don't see that. Have you considered that this lack of sensitivity may be from an agenda that you may be obscuring even from yourself? Your purpose in discussing these materials is obvious to everyone here, except yourself. It would probably be more accepted here if there were not such an apparent intention to harm by doing so. No one here is remotely interested in discussions of space cooties or spacie sisters, yet you are so insistent on pressing your case. Most people here are sincere in their curiosity for tech, but a dishonest motive is just a turn off. Can you not just drop it, or take it elsewhere. I generally support you, Eldon. But not in this. Please consider taking it elsewhere, and good luck with your manual. But not here. please.

Sent: 10:07 AM - 10/14 2000

Here, I´d like to share a quote from a book I am reading currently (I do not recommend the book to NAP-Readers though, I just find this passage interesting):

"I suspect that is why Oriental spiritual traditions place such a strong emphasis on spiritual guidance and mentorship....by a spiritual advisor...for people who are embarking on a rigoros spiritual discipline. Diligent practice of yoga postures,chanting of mantras and hours of meditation...can certainly awaken the Kundalini..And when the Kundalini awakens the aspirant may well need the practical, personal guidance of someone who can help him/her navigate through powerful emotional highs and lows, bouts of depression, the thundering roars of volts of electricity surging through the body, the searing, crippling back pain, the interiour auditions and visions,....non-human being visitations, the out-of-body-experiences, and all the other strange, exotic, unusual and sometimes painful experiences an awakened kundalini can cause."

- Richard Sauder in "Kundalini Tales".

I share this, because I myself have experienced some pretty scary stuff due to disciplined hours of Primarying,Persistent-Massing, Releasing,Emoclearing (not that this "scary stuff" is "bad" in any way...scary in the sense of surprising and extremely powerful).

I have had Kundalini experiences that had my body shaking uncontrollably up from my bed to the ceiling,Poltergeist-Phenomena upon trying to handle Entities, Out-Of-Body-Experiences and other incidents.

For me personally, this is just fine. But I am sure that other people could use some professional guidance when ocassionally encountering this type of "stuff".

What do you all think?

Sent: 10:25 AM - 10/14 2000

I´d like to share a strange incident that happened to me two nights ago. I have not visited Scientology nor the Avatar-Wizards-Course but have some insights on the issue of "Entities". I also sense some Being near me that causes a type of sexual craving I have. One night I spoke out loud: "Alright, I´m gonna handle this baby tonight". I lie down in bed and start exploring my uncontrolled sexual craving, tech-style.

I had forgotten that I had left a videotape of sexual content in my video-recorder, as I hadn´t used the video-player for months.Anyway...after 15 Minutes of exploring, my Video-Player suddenly switched on by itself.Yet another few minutes later it stopped and then fast-winded-forward.

I interrupted my session and looked up, startled.Silence.

I went and turned off the Video-Player and went back to bed to continue expanding my attention. After another five minutes there was a crack and the video-tape FLEW out of the Video-Recorder onto the floor.This had never happened before...when ejecting the tape it gently slides out.I clearly sensed some prescence in the room being very angry at what I was about to do.

I was feeling pretty shaky by then and decided to quit the excersise and just go to sleep.

.....I have certainly hit upon an interesting thing though.

By the way: This kind of writing should not scare you off of applying spiritual technologies. Spiritual technologies hold much more gains than they do pains.Sometimes though, it´s good to go slow and gentle...step by step, rather than enforcing something.

Look Anon,

Tech comes in many flavors. I know the focus here is mainly on what we might call leading edge parapsychology if we needed a term. (BTW, if this board had a category, what would be a catchall term for it?) However, all the techniques are derivative and interrelated. There are many esoteric branches of tech out there that include religious and pseudo-religious practices, including drug trips. They have been discussed here. My only agenda was defining what falls into the definition of tech.

I used a hypothetical example of Scientology "Body Thetan" exorcism. Lo and behold, right on the "Targets for Tech" link on this page is a bunch of stuff about personality clusters--or unwittingly assumed "identities" if you will. There have been discussions about derivatives of Scientology tech by Alan Walters and The Pilot. Nobody was remotely interested?

Can you please provide a list of tech topics which you're certain are of no interest to anyone here, or which would be harmful to discuss for some reason? It might help to provide some rationale for your prohibition while you're at it. Then everyone would know why it's not supposed to interest them.

And it's Eldon, with a D in the middle, not Elton.

Best, Eldon

Sent: 1:31 PM - 10/14 2000

I wonder if that Kundalini rising experience is similar to the rising I feel during the Meridian Grasp.

A problem with the CHP. I can feel the creation all right, but when it comes to disociate (this is not I...), I cannot. I still sit inside the creation and I cannot seem to be able to label it. In other words, I cannot seem to go from inside to outside. It all stays inside.

Sedona Method. Once I tried to set my clock so it buzzed every hour. I then did the Method on whatever I was feeling. Some feelings just did not release. Overall, I think it was a good habit to get into, but the problem was that those feelings did not release. That kind of ruined the whole process. Maybe I should have done a MG on those.

Sent: 1:52 PM - 10/14 2000

Why is it Webmaster that Eldon can do his justification dance all over and you let him and when someone calls him on something, you delete the post. I'm really surprised that you show such prejudice. Should we consider you a member of the Slaughter-Braun team?

Sent: 2:06 PM - 10/14 2000

Dale, I've had the same experience with the CHP, only in reverse. I go out of the creation and everything goes with me.

Sent: 3:40 PM - 10/14 2000

Hello All of you:

I see a little borderline politicing going on. Just borderline. If someone has a problem with Eldon's posts then they should consult directly with the webmaster. It seems like people want exact or clear definitions of what politics consists of. In fairness I've seen several of Eldon's posts get clipped here since I've buzzed by the board. The webmaster has been fair. I like that he's put some rules up top. A potential problem can arrise when some posters direct their attention specifically at Eldon or at anyone for that manner. The anti-Avatar stuff gets clipped from what I've seen. The Prince's post is zeroed out. A lot of this politics sillyness is just people dancing around in circles trying to locate control and testing limits. When one side does not hassle back, then the politics dies out. If you have gripes with posts give the webmaster an email. Or maybe even go off lines with Eldon via email and see if you can't clear it up that way. Or go after him on those other boards where this is permitted. And likewise for Eldon too.

Mirika Chen

Sent: 4:14 PM - 10/14 2000

Ancient Temple: Was that a video player orgasm?

You raised some good questions about spiritual mentoring. I've had some very odd experiences when I did Steve's circular breathing without the head grasp (M.G. Grasp) I popped out of my body. When I was out of my body, I felt absolutely divine. Calm. I was in different rooms and places it seemed like. Then wne I thought about my body I abruptly jerked back into it and felt some anxiety once back inside. This was because I was back in my body where I could really feel. I returned to doing the Meridian Grasp head grasp and the anxiety soon returned to a state of profound peace. At that point I was no longer afraid to be external to my body. I still feel this way. But I have to admit to you I was very mystified by this occurence. I heard about it, but never knew what it was like. I emailed Steven and he returned my email a few hours later. I discussed what happened with him. We shared quite a bit. There are several forms of spiritual mentoring open to us on this board. Openly sharing like you and I are doing. We get feedback from others. Emailing to Steve and others.

And reading books that directly articulate these experiences and make sense of them. Further there is an organization out there called SEN (Spiritual Emergency Network). They have a website. Personally I don't feel uncomfortable with this exploring. However if you are on emotional overwhelm and you don't know what to do with it, I'd email Steve. Or share it with the board. Fears around these new and really important experiences can be cleared or accepted. However you don't need to go on spiritual overwhelm and possibly traumatize yourself and be afraid to do exploration. This needn't happen. If you do feel overwhelmed, then I'd stop for a bit and get your bearings. Find Steve or someone you trust that you can share this with. Now remember I took it upon myself to do the breathing without the grasp. I wasn't really following directions here. I was breathing fast and I was aware of this. I do know that I can reach for that Meridian Grasp hold and it will very quickly cut through the overwhelm. Steve even emailed me about another emergency exploratory tool called the "Neurovascular Helmut". This is a simple to use emergency tool for overwhelm. Like the Meridian Grasp hold, it cuts out the flight/fight response by altering cererbral blood flow. Neurovascualar points are accessed with gentle tugs on the forehead, top of the head, and rear of the head. It totally levels into calm even the most severe arousal. Anxiety and anger get cut out entirely. If you are exploring outside of the boundaries of Emoclear rules for doing processes or anyone else's tech, it would be wise to know how to do the "Neurovascular Helmut". It brings a very serene form of acceptance very quickly. I think people who act as spiritual guides or mentors should know this and the M.G. hold. It's not that our experiences our unpleasant, it's how we view them. Some of these experiences may seem overwhelming if you are going through them for the first time. When you look upon them with a cool eye they actually make sense.

Ancient Temple you don't seem terribly blown out by your adventures. How did this come to be for you?

SEN can also turn people on to people in their area who work with Spiritual Emergencies. Christina Grof has a good introductory text on spiritual emergency that defines a lot of emergencies and queer happenings. The bookstores are filled with good books on just about anything occurring.

Maybe people can mention some of their specific titles.

That sex entity sounds like it could be some fun. I hope your not blown away by it. Maybe that's the wrong phrase?

Love, Mirika Chen

Sent: 4:25 PM - 10/14 2000

I see lots of tech about Emoclear on the tech page. Can someone tell me where the best place to start is? It seems a bit overwelming.

Sent: 4:27 PM - 10/14 2000

Dale: You might add breathing to the Sedona without any attempt to force the target into releasing. Just welcome the feeling and let yourself feel it with the Sedona. If you are circular breathing that should pop it out. However what are you targeting, sometimes we have to go for a secondary target first because that's what is keeping the primary target afloat.

William Tekada

Mirika,

What a wonderful post.

When I first came on board back on the old NAP, one of the first questions I raised was where is the support if this tech is for free?

Over the time that I have been exploring on this board I have received more support than I had previously through a to remain nameless organization.

I consider myself mostly to be a lone ranger, when it comes to this exploration. Doing stuff, experiencing stuff and then trying to understand what I was experiencing. Most of it was done by per intuition. Most of the time I still question "why" I did some of the things I did. And there was a time that I questioned whether I was "losing it". It was only after I had gained footing on some solid ground that I learned about the spiritual emergency network.

With Steve's help and others on board, I have once again returned to a place that I feel comfortable to return to my exploration. Using a different way of processing, from a different level, than what I was previously using.

If anyone does not feel that they are in a safe place to continue to explore and transform, I sincerely hope you will reach out to Steve or one of us.

I know I am not the best one to say this, for very often I do not follow directions. But let me give you a clue, if you're not following directions to this tech, and if you're experiencing something that is overwhelming to you, it's not the techs fault.

Much love,

Cyndy

Sent: 8:50 PM - 10/14 2000

Dale:

That's a good question. What is it you want to accomplish?

Do you want to: Explore? Clear? Create a compeling future?

Solve a problem? Gain an experience of seeing the world in a new and novel way? Process and experience emotions?

There's already a pile of processes up top and more arriving every week. If it's clearing, then start off with the D.I.E or M.G. The Vortex and Clear 5 are also clearers. The Vortex is strictly an energy process and very powerful at what it does. The Clear 5 is a feeling based process and darn good too. Read over the descriptions and let your internal response be your guide in choosing. It's a bit like walking around in a high end audiophile store. Which gizmo do you do first. That's really up to you. They all will blow your mind in some way or another. Pick one and stay with it until you get results. A lot start with the M.G. because of its simplicity. Follow the directions and if obstacles arise just report what they are and someone will give you some pointers. You'll be amazed by the things that happen. The first few clears amaze newbies, but soon that will appear like old hat. The more you utilize these tools, the more new things open up to you. Wait until you start clearing in conscious dreaming. That might not happen for a few at bats. Good luck! Discover the fun! And swerve from going after special abilities until you have a sense that is okay with you the emotional level. Some of these people sound like hellcats.

Teko

Entities is a tough issue. Entities are either created by our own subconscious energy, or they are attracted because some as yet unintegrated aspected of our being is vibrating in a way that either aligns or harmonizes with their vibration. Either way, they are an emanation of unintegrated energy - disowned energy children, in a way. Most are relatively weak in spirit and can be taken care of easily. However, some are sufficently energized to seem as if they have their own will and source.

This can be frightening, because the realm of entites is the telepathic realm. The actual energy-source comes from human beings, not the entities. The entities are effects, not causes. This is of supreme importance to remember when dealing with them. OUR energy is what's powering it, NOT theirs. I have found that by very intensely focusing attention on them they can be activated. Your attention energy will activate them. Because they don't have a true will of their own, they must wait until someone's attention energy activates them.

The second rule about telepathic entities is that they will take orders from humans. Once you realize who is running the show (YOU not them), and you can hold a very focused attention on them, they can be walked through a clearing process, just like anyone else. The key is to maintain highly focused attention, and while appreciating the entity, still maintain a strict NO-BS attitude. They are like unruly children - once they sense that a truly responsible adult who will not buy into their trips walks in the room, they submit. Like unruly children, they need a simultaneous dose of strict discipline and appreciation. I will save you the trouble of wondering about the Avatar process of dealing with them. You walk them through a CHP.

Another truth about entities is that their deepest desire is to be released from their miserable, endlessly-repeating scenario they are stuck in. They know, like you do, that they need you in order to be released. That is the true reason they are trying to get your attention.

Understanding these things puts you at source over any telepathic entity. A good ideais to clear your own auric field of any enrgy except your higher self, and surround yourself with love and light. Once you have established with full clarity exactly what kind of energy you are going to allow in your space, you have effectively shut the door on any lower-vibrating telepathic entities.

If you stay with it, the entity will release just like any other stuck energy. Poltergeist phenomena is actually the entity in the process of blowing itself out. If you persist, it will eventually blow out. There are gentler ways to do it.

Ancient Temple, if you had stuck it out, with full, appreciative, and focused attention on the entity, it might have raised some more hell, but it would have blown. Maybe it's antics were a reflection of your own resistance. You can back off, go gentler, discreate it in pieces instead of all at once. I would suggest even to start appreciating your sexuality. Start seeing how beautiful and spiritual your sex energy actually can be. Bring as much awareness to sex as possible, make it enjoyable and relaxing. I have a suspicion that your resistance to your own sexual energy either created or attracted the entity. I therefore think that relaxing, and enjoying your sexuality is a good place to begin.

Sex energy is the raw material of spiritual enlightenment. If you believe in Kundalini, then you know that the energy must start out at the bottom chakra, move up through the sex center, and then into the belly and then the heart. The same energy that will open your heart is now trying to work its way through your sex center.

When a sculptor looks at a lump of clay, he sees a beautiful finished statue. Similarly, learn to see your sex energy as the raw material for spiritual realization, because that's what it is. Your sex energy is sacred, a gift directly from God, absolutely stunning, beautiful, and powerful. If you resist the energy when it is in your sex center, then how will it ever arise to your heart, let alone the crown chakra?

When you clear on this, the entity will have only two possibilities: either it will also clear, or it must return to a state of dormancy until someone else's stuck sex energy activates it. Either way, you will be free. The compassionate thing to do would be to release the entity from its hell, and thus save others from being tortured by it.

I have the intuition that you will succeed with it. You seem like a strong and wise person.

I hope it doesn't offend NAP readers to speak frankly about sex energy as it relates to spirituality. I have tried to speak on it only in terms of its importance as an energy for growth and clearing. Hope this is of assistance. -Y

Ancient Temple,

Sounds like you had an interesting time with the Porno Poltergeist. Yogi's description of how the little rascals operate and how to deal with them is clear, concise and correct from my experience. In fact, it's an excellent summary.

As for who or what they are, I don't know. On this topic, Yogi has maintained an equivocal this-or-that attitude, indicating to me that he's not sure either.

I know I "released" a lot of them on OT III and NOTs in Scientology, where they are said to be clumps of alien spirits, yadayada. The Xenu myth is way out there, of course, but these things do read on the e-meter, and something does happen on some level.

Ancient Temple's description of the "Kundalini opening" effects are also interesting. Scientology has a big secretive rigamarole about being properly (and expensively) prepared for the Wall of Fire. A few people have been known to flip out on these Scientology levels, but that could just be suggestion.

Later on, I did more stuff with "identities" using the Avatar methods. I mean, I have been around the block a few times with this phenomenon, and some pretty heavy stuff happened.

I never got to the point where things were flying around the room, but a few times I became pretty telepathic. I would get tired of someone in the room having a headache and just yank the energy flows around. On two separate occasions, the person looked suprised and asked me what I did to make the headache vanish. So I have witnesses--it wasn't just me imagining it.

OK, so I have dealt with many entities or identities or personas on many levels. Something happened, and I'm still wondering who they are and where they came from. Maybe I should just not care. Or maybe I should experiment. Problem there is I really can't find many of consequence left to play around with.

And now, to further complicate things, along comes Arnie Lerma with the theory that the Scientology e-meter promotes endorphin release and other mental phenomena due to the trickle of electricity it puts through the body. He has calculated that the latest higher voltage version gives you the equivalent in coulombs of a couple of ECT sessions during 2.5 hours of auditing. Alan Walter takes this seriously enough that he has minimized use of the e-meter in his processing--just in case. Yet the e-meter (a skin galvanometer) does indicate areas of mental stress--that is, if lie detectors and other such biofeedback devices work, which is generally accepted.

I'm sorry to sound so rationalist about this, but this damn question just won't go away. Maybe I should try to process the question itself out of existence, but I don't think I want to. Anybody got an answer?

Best, Eldon

Therapy patient. ECT, yikes! Don't even consider it. Can do permanent damage. A barbaric form of administering pain usually into an already confused mind. I've read that the force of it and the indelible 'mark' it has can deliver some type of 'certainty' to someone who is depressed and sort of jolt them into the present time if it doesn't harm them too bad and send them into a psychotic break.

There are many less harmful ways to improve your certainty level, bring you more into the present and end introversion about things that happened in the past. Please hang in there and try to find a partner to work with you using the techniques that are discussed on this forum.

Do what you can to improve your diet, take vitamin/mineral supplements - try 5-HTP, L-Phenylalanine, SAMe. See what you can do about getting yourself into a very safe/pleasing enviroment, try to get all time constraints off your back (take some time off work), get as much rest as you possibly can. You will rebound.

Sent: 7:25 AM - 10/15 2000

To anybody, what do you think the difference is between release and surrender?

Good question, PG. I personally think in order to truly release, a person must "surrender". Surrender in the sense that they are no longer hanging on to that feeling or desire. For me, I have noticed that when I hang on to things the most (desire), it shows an inability to release. Once I say, okay that is the way things are and I am no longer holding on to the desire, releasing is easy.

Sent: 9:12 AM - 10/15 2000

That seems right to me, too. But what if I had said, what is the difference between "release from" and "surrender to?" Would you still give the same answer?

I personally find the subjective and objective senses of the words "surrender" and "release" of prime importance. Is it just me who feels that an overriding sense of sovereignty or "ownership" is important for clearing? In other words, it's a conscious choice.

If you release something, you just let go of it. If you surrender something, you give it up or hand it over. As in the phrase, "surrendering judgment."

If you release yourself FROM something, it's more a sense of escape from imprisonment. Or if someone releases you, it is their choice.

If you surrender TO someone or something -- Oh boy! Maybe you were at war and you lost. You're desperately waving the white flag. No thanks.

I'm not sure that "surrender" is an effective word to describe the neutralization of desire and resistance. It has so many power trip connotations. Maybe "acceptance" would be a good subsitute term.

Best, Eldon

Sent: 10:19 AM - 10/15 2000

Thanks, Eldon, I think that's the distinction I was looking for. So my next question is what is the difference, or more importantly how can one tell the difference, between ego (impermanent, mortal, possessive sense of self) and spirit (eternal, higher-self or non-possessive self) as the evolving party? Can the same process be run so as to be ego-strengthening or spiritually awakening? Rules?

Sent: 10:59 AM - 10/15 2000

Mirika Chen, Yogi, Eldon....I read and enjoyed your posts very much. It´s good to have a place like this board to go when you have questions:-)

Indeed Yogi I view the power of appreciation (as in Silent Amazement, Gratitude,Love,intense interest/attention) as the single most powerful tool for ANY creation.

What a Creation IS, depends on WHOs looking at the Creation, or AS WHO I look at it.:-)

Dear Mirika....naw, I won´t be blown away...just a little amazed for a few hours.

Dear Eldon...as far as the E-meter thing goes, I´ll leave comment to someone else who has a better understanding of it.

Sent: 11:07 AM - 10/15 2000

Dear PG...

that´s an issue I´ve been pondering on as well.My reasoning went something like: "On the one hand I am aware that I needn´t accept to have my pain again and again, on the other hand I´m aware that I need to accept it in order not to have it again and again"..lol.

I now use surrender as an attitude I have towards something...as a trick, actually.I surrender to it, so that I can eventuallý take control of it.This is quite paradoxical, but it works.

Does that make any sense at all?

Sent: 12:18 PM - 10/15 2000

I once had someone run a squirrel Scientology process on me, at least I think it was squirrel. It was a repetitive question, "Tell me something you could surrender." After about 2 and 1/2 hours of that, I was really in the zone. I laughed for days afterward and you couldn't have keyed me in with an atom bomb. I just triggered back into just by recalling it.

PG,

Interesting question. Also, one that I have thought about in recent weeks.

What surfaces today, is that there is no difference between ego and spirit creations.

I don't often quote from scripture. I'm not sure this even comes from the Bible, perhaps someone can verify that for me. What I get is.

"The Father is in me and I am in the Father". Does this make any sense?

Much love,

Cyndy

I think it's a matter of degree or emphasis. You could say that at times you're operating mostly at a higher level or frequency that is "more spiritual," or on a lower level that is "more in the ego zone." They may be two ends of a continuum, but I wouldn't really distinguish them as separate and distinct states. I agree with Cyndy's statemtent as well. We're really operating on both levels simultaneously.

Best, Eldon

Sent: 3:12 PM - 10/15 2000

Cyndy says: What surfaces today, is that there is no difference between ego and spirit creations.

Yea, no, maybe, I'm not sure. But I have made postulates (you call them primaries) from a spiritual place and the world practically turned itself inside out to deliver--matrix style. And I have also made postulates from a very egoful viewpoint and it was effort, effort, effort and finally, maybe, they'd manifest.

I have been teaching entities for over 40 years.

At St. Fatima's we have strong utility closets.

I have absolutely no time for sexual entities. And poltergiest entities? This is the sort of thing that crops up in undisciplned young minds.

Resist evil.

Yogi here is your bar of soap!

Eldon I would expect this from you.

Ruler tapping unrythmically on desk, Sister Love

Sent: 3:52 PM - 10/15 2000

A couple of comments on today's interesting threads:

E-meter: many years ago, I used an e-meter to map major meridians of the body. Can in one hand, clip in the other, and just run it along the body and watch the needle. I took a magic marker, and lo and behold, I looked like the ancient chinese charts. I found that you could find a blocked energy channel with the meter, flow a little light affinity sort of flow at the point and follow the channel with your attention, and Wham!, the needle would drop several dials and f/n. This actually worked for clearing several old dead areas for old injuries: put life back in there. I gave it up as it was "way out there" and experimenting on my own meat did not seem prudent. Might make an interesting study, though, or possibly a therapy.

Surrender to: I did some interesting work with Al Lowen in bioenergetics in the sixties: he was the brain, and I was the meat. The work was based on ideas of Wilheim Reich, a very brilliant guy involved in some of the brightest, and some of the wackiest experiments, ever. Anyway, the idea is that the body forms "armor" in its own defense: either to stop you from harm, or harming others. The body takes a form or a "cast" which is locked up muscles holding suspended emotional charge, old pains, blocked energy, etc. Through breathing, and some very difficult physical stressing, you (or your body, depending on whose theory you favor) you actually wind up "surrendering to" certain stresses. Just "I give up" surrenders. You find that you cannot continue to hold these energies blocked anymore, and get massive clearings of old emotions, energy, entities, etc. This stuff was a very handy trick after OT3 materials were out, and had exhausted available targets, but before NOTs, which was of questionable efficacy. It cleared masses and ridges by the truck load. Anyway, the lesson of these "surrender to" exercises was that you can "learn to bend, but you will not break". They were extraordinarily effective on softening hardened individuals, and allowed them to finally experience "softer" emotions. They also cured a great deal of resistance to change. For some individuals, "surrendering to" is an anathema, which bars further progress, and full experience. Many approach these clearing exercises from a very tough ego point of view, and never get beyond a certain point because of this lack of exercising "surrender to".

Keep breathing, and may the force be with you.

Obi Wan

Sent: 4:10 PM - 10/15 2000

I've always treated entities as makyo or illusions. They very in power and intensity from person to person. At times they appear to have a power and a life of their own.

When you are with these makyo(zen illusions) it can be quite overwheming for some. People have faced entire spiritual armies, poltergesists, elves, peaceful and rathful dieties and the like. They can be as real as the most compelling hallucination or illusionation. And that can be very real. When you encounter these processes you are at a deeply absorbed level. Sometimes they occur hypnogically when people awake or when they have been deeply absorbed in meditation or when using highly absorbing tech. For some folks this can be extremely overwhelming and frightening. Others who are veterans of inner life will accept them as part of the turf. Entities, Makyo, or whatever you want to label them can be benign or can offer some enormous resources for integration. Treat them all as if they were a friend. Some may appear outwardly evil or threatening, but these are our projections. They have split off from ourselves and become other. Frequently they are unaccepted parts of ourselves that we better experience and feel back into ourselves. Some may be fragmentations from traumas. Some may come from just being unaccepting and unloving in certain areas in our lives. When they are felt back in and fully experienced as a part of ourselves they become integrated.

Felt conversations with them can be very helpful. Since they have been disowned they may have some powerful messages for us at the feeling level. Avoid exorcising them or disenfranchising them further. An attitude of love and appreciation toward them often begins to heal the split.

Surrender will work for some of us who do not have a negative experience of that word. Complete acceptance can be another approach. They are like lost feeling states that have become disembodied from us. We often do not recognize these beings or entities as part of ourselves, they have become dissociated and "other" like. Give them your utmost attention because they have much to teach on the feeling level before you reown them.

In rare instances these etities, makyo may actually have their roots in persons outside ourselves. These split off beings may have resulted from splits in our relationships with others. There's a shared quality about them. In any event allow them fully into your awareness and feel what they have to offer. In time they will again be an accepted if not loved part of you. Let go of any intention of pushing them away or being allienated from them. That spook on the other side of the room is always a part of your self. In socalled real life our socalled enemies are split off parts of ourselves.

Take care, Steve

Sent: 4:15 PM - 10/15 2000

Perhaps my understanding of the term "ego" is poor, but I find that the spiritual creations/discreations are an entirely different level from those ego based. I personally do much work from an ego perspective, because I live on planet Earth: but the motives, and the results, are more limited, and from a more selfish, and self oriented point of view. They are rarely more efficacious than simply using normal lower ARC /KRC tools. For the most astonishing results, I find it appropriate the reach a softer, less self centered "higher self" and work from there. The results are usually much greater, and have broader results which benefit a larger playing field. The "higher self" seems to be a ascending spiral sort of deal, and when occasionaly I have worked from these higher levels, the gains seem to be greater, spread more, and are longer lasting. This would be more towards what the scios call a "pan-determined" rather than "self determined" result.

Keep breathing, and may the force be with you.

Obi Wan

Sent: 4:42 PM - 10/15 2000

I hesitate to disagree with Mensing on anything because he is clearly an evolved guy.

There are several theories one may hold as his cosmogony, and from which he may handle creations: they all are useful in developing useful therapies or "techs". They range from creation of the universe by God and you are his creation, to the belief that there are many of us who co-exist and create the universe as an agreed upon reality who shall re-integrate and return in some future to the pool of god, to the point of view that you are the sole creator of the universe and are solely (and soul-ly) responsible for it's content. There are not many permutations of these which would deny the existence of entities, however.

But my own experience, whatever the source of entities, is not that they are uniformly friendly. In fact, I have found many of them bent on causing illness, mental distress, and death. Perhaps one could take the view that is because I am the person I am, and Mensing, being the person he is, has a different experience. However, as this argument is so unattractively prejudicial to myself, I reject it outright.

My view is that entities do exist, and run the gamut from archangels and leprechauns, to that little flea gnawing your liver. I have interacted with them all. And if they don't exist: so what. I've had too much fun handling them, and playing with them to give them up now. I find the various entity handling tools extremely productive and useful. Sure, many entities are self-produced, much as what seems to be real enemies are self produced. But the ones of a different flavor do exist.

Keep breathing, and may the force be with you.

Obi Wan

Sent: 4:43 PM - 10/15 2000

Obi Wan:

Just saw your post after I finished my last post.

I've played with emeter type devices and found them fairly useful. I used a friend's "Ability Meter" and could see great benefit from its use. I've always experienced a chi meter which purports to locate energy flow. I found you could trace all the meridians and locate the chakras' activity. Blockages could be read this way. Mostly if I do anything to read what's going on in someone's body I do simple muscle tests. Sometimes I don't even muscle test any more because I can locate blockages by just passing my hands over their body. A good muscle test can do the same as one of these meters.

Lowen's bioenergetics was an outgrowth of Willhelm Reich and has much to offer. I did some work when I was younger with an old school Reichian and found it pretty rewarding.

Today's Energy therapies, although not as intrusive as either Riechian or Bioenegetics, treat the same orgone flow as the old boys. If a therapist who has been schooled in Reichian or Bioenergetics and has worked in the new energy therapies, they will quickly note that body and character armoring breaks down as blockages are opened up and emotions cleared. And all this is done with out pounding a client in armored areas. The old school stuff was great, but it could be a pretty painful trip for folks going through it. Restims frequently occurred. Today there's stuff out there that corrects the orgone flow without the client feeling all beat to hell afterwards. The course of therapy has been greatly sped also because folks arn't initiating defenses at an unconscious level and stiffening their "armour". The old school stuff could scare some people into running out of a session. If the client stayed with the process they could make great gains. The clients had to be somewhat hardy. You'd be breathing deeply and fully and getting jabbed in some fairly painful spots.

I see nothing wrong with surrendering. However, that word may have a different flavor for other folks. Just allowing yourself to let go and fully feel can do the same. Some folks, who have come from a background where control issues

occurred, may not experience surrender in a user friendly way.

Take care, Steve

Sent: 4:45 PM - 10/15 2000

In my last post I noticed I wrote "I always used a chi meter". I meant to say: "I also used a chi meter."

Thanks, Steve

Sent: 5:18 PM - 10/15 2000

Obi Wan:

I read your continued post about entities with great interest.

I may have come to entities and the like from a different background and this may have colored my experience and approach to them.

My first experience of entities occurred as a child. I saw poltergeists and had visions. They frightened me. My mother who had a "psychosis" or "spiritual emergence" often experienced visionary creatures. This stuff was a part of my household.

Years later when I was experimenting in the sixties with large doses of a certain substance I ran across all manner of entities. My initial guidebooks and introductions to these entities were Tibetan Buddhist texts focused on the passage from life into death. I took these instructions to heart and when I met these peaceful and wrathful dieties on the road to ego death, I surrendered to them and their experiences. I have been joyously hacked to death and pulled apart and been reintegrated with all those ferocious entities to the point where I see them as energetic and valuable creations.

I have met armies of "evil" and "undesirable" entities on the road of mindfulness and zen style meditation. The most viscious socalled bastards you'd ever want to meet. Hitler and Attila would be milquetoasts in their company. White Cannibals would shrink from their sight. However, my experience was shaped by studying with an older Burmese monk near Silver City, New Mexico. I described the nature of some of my meditation enemies and he would always laugh.

They are Buddhas in disguise he would tell me. At a certain level there is no evil or good. There are no labels or trances. There is what he called the Buddha mind. Good and bad are required to be seen in the same white light of experience. From these early shaping experiences I have grown to see all entities in the same light. On everyday level they may appear like pernicious bastards, the most black hearted entities. But when I reunite myself with them, their colorings change. Their labels fall away. They no longer have power over me or my consciousness. Many of them have stories to tell.

To regard them as purely evil and to clip them will likely bring them back in other forms, often in our everyday life.

I would be willing to bet, and correct me if I'm wrong, you may be experiencing some other people in your life in an adverserial way, as enemies and likely even evil. If this is so, I can't disuade you from this. This is not a subject that reason will reach. However, I would invite you to take a look at the next evil bastard entity that pops up during your interior journey. Be with it and surrender to it and see what happens. Choose one about elf size and listen to what it has to say. This way you won't feel so overwhelmed by it. Even those little fatheads gnawing at your liver are grist for the mill. Feel what they have to say and allow them to come home.

This is my experience.

Take care, Steve

Sent: 5:29 PM - 10/15 2000

To Obi Wan and others:

Trust your own judgement, but keep an open mind as well.

I am incredibly unevolved.

Please question anything I say! Go by your own experience.

Experience is the litmus, not beliefs. Keep in mind that experience can be colored as well and that our beliefs are nearly all self proving.

Doubt and questioning never hurt anyone. Chaos and uncertainty are wonderful!

Steve

Sent: 5:36 PM - 10/15 2000

Steve, your post on Reichian therapy and bruises had me rolling on the floor: really brought back memories of the joys of voluntary cellular destruction. I think I found Lowen's stuff to be extremely comfortable and fast because of prior experience with Rolfing.

I had been through a full course of Rolfing, starting with Ida, and completed by her son Richard. Talk about pain! No kidding, that woman missed her calling: she should have been an interrogator. But what remarkable physical and mental change. I did, however, find the bioenergetics more valuable in terms of case gain over pain endured.

I have no experience with the modern energy work, and apologise for my ignorance. May I inquire as to whether you had the joy of experiencing the Rolfing? Honestly, I find that I resist the idea that the more gentle modern stuff is faster. More easily tolerated, perhaps. I'd walk (usually, yes) out of those sessions feeling light as a feather, but with bruises that would frighten a veternarian.

Keep breathing, and may the force be with you.

Obi Wan

Sent: 5:45 PM - 10/15 2000

Mensing, good friend, I quote you:

"Experience is the litmus, not beliefs. Keep in mind that experience can be colored as well and that our beliefs are nearly all self proving."

You are cracking me up today. Are you chumming me up, sir, or what? After reading this board for some time, and following the recent threads discussing Avatar, and reviewing my Avatar materials such as "Resurfacing", you just wiped me out with that comment.

May I inquire, have you done the Avatar Course? I see so many Avatars here, I just wondered if you partake?

Sent: 6:08 PM - 10/15 2000

Hello everyone, I really love these posts I am reading about entities and surrender. You guys have so much to offer. Steve, Obi Wan, Yogi, and Eldon bring up some really heady things here about entities and surrender.

I work as a therapist and sometimes I am brought in to consult on health problems. Obi Wan and Steve spoke about two somewhat divergent approaches to entities. Specifically those evil minded variety. Some of those entities appear to come with evil intentions. Obi Wan writes about those that cause disease, mental distress, and death. Outwardly I might agree with him, yet inwardly I see these things in an opposing light. I come from the school of thought that tends to regard mental distress, illness, and the like as powerful and useful messages from the body mind or higher self. Death may stand as an unheaded message.

In my clinical practice I have consulted with physicians (wholistically minded) about patient's attitudes toward their illnesses and distresses. I have noted in many patient situations where the patient viewed their illness or stress as something bad or even evil the progression of their disease usually went quickly and full course. I've seen this in HIV, Cancer, and other life threatening illnesses. On the other hand I have witnessed patients who have come to terms with their illness and saw it as a valuable message from their body/mind, higher wisdom and something to be embraced (as crazy as this sounds), these were the people who either lived way past expectations or even reversed the course of their illness. Here bad or evil was embraced and seen in another context. This must be done at the deepest emotional level. So I would think in a way this may lend support to what Steve is saying about bringing this socalled enemy entity back into your being. I did Holotropic breathwork and experienced these entities you guys are talking about. One of them which I initially experienced as evil and gave me a sense of ugliness and putrification actually pounced on me and wouldn't let go. I was the most horrible experience let me tell you. I fought and struggled with it. I stopped my breathing twice to tell my sitter and the person conducting the work. They said don't fight it, give in to it. Feel it. Well with some reluctance I eventually did. It seemed like an endless struggle at first. It spoke to me and let go. It was very religious. Buit this beast entity began to transform before my very eyes. My fear and sick feelings evaporated. I felt this beast as no longer a beast. It was a part of me. My own sexuality. I was raised Catholic and had some residual guilt about my own sexuality that took on this entity form. That is what I got. So I can see initially seeing these depraved beings, entities as dark and evil and as something worth fighting. There is another way that gets at their story and leads to transforming these poor devils. If illness, mental distress, or death comes your way give it your full hearing and feeling. Maybe use Obi Wan's surrender or Eldon's reframe of that word. But evil and darkness can be pathways into the light. At some level this all balances out.

My deepest appreciation to Steve, Obi Wan, Yogi, Eldon and any others involved with entities!

Love and Entities, Kelly Brandt

If a Dog were your Teacher:

You would learn stuff like...

When loved ones come home, always run to greet them.

Never pass up the opportunity to go for a joyride.

Allow the experience of fresh air and the wind in your face to be pure ecstasy.

When it's in your best interest, practice obedience.

Let others know when they've invaded your territory.

Take naps and stretch before rising.

Run, romp, and play daily.

Thrive on attention and let people touch you.

Avoid biting when a simple growl will do.

On warm days, stop to lie on your back on the grass.

On hot days, drink lots of water and lay under a shady tree.

When you're happy, dance around and wag your entire body.

No matter how often you're scolded, don't buy into the guilt thing

and pout, run right back and make friends.

Delight in the simple joy of a long walk.

Eat with gusto and enthusiasm. Stop when you have had enough.

Be loyal.

Never pretend to be something you're not.

If what you want lies buried, dig until you find it.

And MOST of all...

When someone is having a bad day, be silent, sit close by and nuzzle them gently.

(Courtesy of Jim)